Harvey

“They did a really good job commercially early days. Like, because they were smart. They were res, there was like a research plus lawyer combo. You know, they got some momentum and some, you know, high profile law firms to sign up early days. But, you know, the…”

“Now, fast forward, post reasoning models, like that totally flipped. And you could see, you know, absolute takeoff of adoption, right? And so a bunch of different things happen at the same time. Lawyers got way more value out of the product. You could see it i…”

“If coding is a half a trillion dollar market, and you have two companies like Harvey and Legora, I don't see why there's not a half trillion dollar market in law.”

“We're in 60 plus percent of AMLA 100. We're in Fortune 500.”

“But ultimately, you're not taking money out of his personal pocket. When you go to a law firm, I mean, what, I don't know what the biggest Harvey deal is. Let's imagine it's 20,000,030 million a year, ok? That's got to come either from another substitute tool,…”

“We have, you know, I think a 180 legal engineers who are Working with these law firms and in-house teams on building bespoke agents based upon the firm's best practice, the playbooks, their precedent. And these legal engineers have themselves been lawyers for …”

“We have both forward deploy engineers that are, you know, you have an agent PM, you probably have one or two actual lawyers within that FDE unit, and then you have software engineers and they're working bespoke with specific.”

“I think you're going to have specialized models for specific use case, like legal tech. If you look at Harvey, for example, I know they're, I think, leading the category in terms of specialization, but I think the large frontier labs are still going to be the …”

“The key point about the application layer is that, you know, intelligence is a primitive, just like buying cloud is a primitive. And what does Salesforce do? It sort of takes the, you know, AWS cloud primitive and turns it into CRM software that delivers an ec…”

“Probably legal. I think there's, you know, there's just so many me too's in this category. Whereas I think that the winner is already in existence. I'm obviously biased, but I think Harvey is very well positioned because they have the widest distribution. And …”

“And the first one of those guys that, that has a security leak and security problem, and it will happen, Is going to wreck their market opportunity.”

“And it's very similar and many people in this audio probably knows what, what's been going on in legal AI with Harvey and Legora. This is almost the exact same thing, but for an engineering workflow.”

“We bridged it very easily through integrating natively with the legacy players. As Lagora and Harvey integrates natively into Word, we did the exact same thing. So the usership works in Endra, but whatever work is being done there is, is perfectly possible to …”

“You know, another example on the lighthouse side would be, you know, we highlight Harvey in, in our article and they just did a fantastic job of winning the right law firms for this very new, very, you know, theoretically high risk initiative where you're augm…”

“But I do think we passed a threshold in like, I want to say about a year ago where a bunch of smaller companies or like new application companies, as they were trying to figure out, how do I really build an AI? Without just being a wrapper on top of open AI, t…”

“Harvey, the CEO of Harvey himself is saying that, you know, his biggest competitive worry is the model labs.”

“If you're Lagor or Harvey, dude, you've got to go into Cooley or Clifford Chance or any of the, build relationships with fifty-year-old white male partners who want to play golf and be told that they're great and that You know, life is awesome. And then you go…”

“It's like priority number 12 for Anthropic is probably not high enough for Harvey and LaGuardia to be too scared.”

“And so, for example, these are the kinds of things we work with Harvey.”

“There will always be capability overhangs. They may not stay still, and so you gotta be nimble. But the Sierras of the world, the Cognitions of the world, the Cursors of the world, the Decagons and Harvey's, these are all agent labs for their field. They can b…”

“Every deployment they do at Harvey has an FD and a lawyer. Every single deployment has a lawyer, right?”

“And I think over time I would be surprised if more of that doesn't get attacked by The large AI foundational companies.”

“Our current partners are Clay, Harvey, Rogo, Dakagon, Mercore.”

“So a lot of what we're building is essentially this taxonomy of here's all the tasks that a law firm would do, and here's all the subtasks that associates would do, and how partners or senior associates would grade that work.”

“What we've seen is actually every different model is good at something different. And so with the initial results we saw, Anthropics models are quite strong, but there's areas where a 5.5 is better. There's some areas where open source is better.”

“We think of our strategy as we want to open source the general stuff and work with all of the providers to make these models as good as possible at general legal. And then we want to build infrastructure for these law firms and enterprises that help them own t…”

“And I think our approach is a bit more inspired by the DeepMind one, just because I think because we're in a vertical, the end goal is very clear.”

“There's customers like us, where we do need to move some of our traffic to open source models because it's just becoming super expensive to serve like the largest closed frontier model.”

“We have simple like assistant type queries where you say, you know, draft me a document that a single query can cost 20 dollars. We have like a review product where you can upload a 100,000 contracts and ask the models to review them, and some of those can cos…”

“I think we're just starting to see in the past six months that inflection for legal where the models can now generate entire documents and they're starting to work in a way where Most lawyers who aren't using this technology just for fun, they're like, this ne…”

“I think for some of the labs, we are like the largest consumer of embeddings.”

“We are going to start publishing some of our research that we're doing with the labs or the other providers and open sourcing more models, more of the work we're doing.”

“So in this one, I think it's around, like, 350, and then New York is around, like, 300, something like that.”

“In this company we have over 200. Yeah. And so, and then on the commercial side, like, actually, I guess doing what a normal lawyer would do there's only about, like, 25.”

“We're around 900 folks 950 people, 960, something like that. We're at around 2000 customers somewhere around three hundred million ARR.”

“Our token usage in January was one trillion. Like for the month of January, and this month it'll probably be like 12 or 13 trillion.”

“Our DAU over MAU at the beginning of the year was around like 36%. Right now it's like 51, 52%.”

“And then this year, most recently, the main switch we did is just went over to cloud agents. Like we switched our entire infrastructure to that. And once we did that, usage literally just started, like, doubling quarter over quarter.”

“No, we actually, we haven't used a lot of that money.”

“And so with that, we've now actually created basically like a pipeline for creating synthetic data sets across like every single legal use case.”

“Yeah, 42% is in-house corporates. It's growing faster than the law firms, technically”

“Our fastest growing of like the, of the verticals in general is financial services is number one for sure. So like banks, private equity, asset management and then pharma is actually growing pretty fast too.”

“Normally, you know, companies need to, like, reinvent themselves maybe every, like, five years, 10 years, something like that. I think you have to do it every six months.”

“If you are making an acquisition, like, the number one thing you should be looking at is just talent. Because you can build things so much faster now, right? That it should literally just be talent.”

“I think every single company is going to sell intelligence. Like that is going to be the core of the company.”

“Yeah, I mean, I would say in Europe, I think our win rate is, like, over 70% so I don't think it's as much dominant there.”

“Now, I actually think this is good for Harvey because it's nothing like trying to do something yourself to make you realize, oh, shit, this is actually really difficult. This doesn't actually matter for us to have the in-house ability to build this ourselves. …”

“These Sierra Decagons, and also legal Harvey, these were niche markets before agents. These were niche markets that are like 10 to a hundred times larger because the agents add so much value.”

“I think they've been more aggressive with hiring, which I actually think I have not been aggressive enough with hiring because I've always tried to have a very, very small, very lean team, which I believed a lot in.”

“Now what does Harvey cost on average? 150,000 dollars a year per law firm.”

“Every, you know, like three to six months, you have to completely redo how you do prioritization as a leader, I think. And if you don't, you're really going to start messing things up.”

“When I get really bad at it, I ask my chief of staff to force me to write a paragraph about why I'm going to take a meeting, full paragraph about why I should take a meeting. And it's so easy if you do it that way, because for 99% of meetings or events or what…”

“Like if there is a part of the company that is running super well and there are no bottlenecks, I ignore it entirely, like absolutely entirely. And I try to only focus on the things that are like burning. And I try to focus on like the number one thing that's …”

“On 86 out of a hundred of those questions, three out of three attorneys said yes, and that was the Oh my God moment for me and for my co-founder, or so we need to do something in this industry.”

“We didn't go to any other VCs or anything like that.”

“The riskiest version of this is we did it during our series A pitch to Sequoia, where Sequoia grabbed a bunch of lawyers that they knew, and they had us demo to them. And I just, I remember Pat Grady emailed me afterwards and was like, is that what you normall…”

“I think I was told to hire senior executives very, very early on, and I refused, and then I refused too long. I refused, like, I'd say about six months too long, but if I would have taken the advice when it was given, I think it would have been a huge mistake.”

“The idea was basically we were gonna buy this company that ended up, it was 10 times bigger than us, people-wise and about the same, like, we were gonna, trying to buy the company For the same, a little bit higher valuation than we are valued at. We tried to b…”

“And I think that there are just so many folks that have these such prestigious backgrounds and they've never gotten a B in their entire lives, like ever probably. Right. And so they think everything is the end of the world. Right. And you can't hire people lik…”

“No one at the company ever has been let go because they made too many mistakes. It's never happened. I've, I have personally never done it. I've never, ever fired someone or anything like that because they made too many mistakes.”