Jul 22, 2024 · 1h 16m · how-i-built-this
On athletic shoes: Olivier Bernhard and Caspar Coppetti
Guy Raz · 25m spoken Caspar Coppetti · 24m spoken Olivier Bernhard · 16m spoken Danny Snyder · 35s spoken
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews On running co-founders Olivier Bernhard and Caspar Coppetti about how an experimental garden-hose prototype disrupted the global footwear market. They detail their strict all-in founder pact, grassroots retail marketing, key athletic endorsements, and multi-billion-dollar public offering.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 38.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 1.9 Guest teaching 1.3 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 39:25 Rejecting Swiss-only rollout premise
Caspar directly corrects Guy's assumption that On began as a modest Swiss domestic rollout, stating they launched across six countries from day one.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 45:55 Challenging sole design aestheticsGuy Raz directly characterizes the signature open-cushion design as weird looking, pressing whether the unusual look was deliberate.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 42:55 Educating on the Speedboard plate mechanicsOlivier explains the biomechanical sandwich structure of the Speedboard plate and CloudTec cushioning, illustrating technical shoe engineering Raz was unfamiliar with.
Guy holds their own ▶ 28:10 Framing the advertising market landscapeGuy leverages his industry knowledge to contextualize how foolhardy it seemed to challenge massive incumbents like Nike with huge marketing budgets.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Guy Raz Newsletter Announcement | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Introductory segment consisting of a newsletter plug, soundbites, and host narration summarizing the On founding story. | |
| Olivier Bernhard’s Athletic Roots and Triathlon Career | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Friendly biographical questions from Guy Raz exploring Olivier's childhood running and triathlon background. | |
| Caspar Coppetti’s Youth, Entrepreneurial Drive, and Family Collapse | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Raz inquires about Caspar's upbringing in snowboarding and the collapse of his family's manufacturing business. | |
| Meeting at Ironman and Forming an Early Partnership | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Raz explores the origin of the founders' partnership when 21-year-old Caspar became Olivier's sports agent. | |
| Overcoming Doping Allegations and Restoring Reputation | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Olivier recounts appealing a false positive doping test to clear his name, which established foundational trust between him and Caspar. | |
| Diverging Paths and the Search for Pain-Free Running | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Raz follows Caspar's career in advertising and Olivier's transition out of competitive athletics toward pain-free running. | |
| The Garden Hose Prototype and Breakthrough Cushioning | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Olivier explains the early prototype made with garden hose pieces glued to Nikes and its immediate impact on his chronic Achilles issue. | |
| Pitching Industry Giants and the Decision to Self-Launch | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Olivier details pitching legacy shoe companies and how Puma's turn toward minimalism inspired the founders to launch their own venture. | |
| Testing Prototypes and Restructuring the Founding Team | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Caspar recounts his initial skepticism before testing the prototype himself and deciding to take the business forward without co-inventor George. | |
| Licensing Patents and the Strict Commitment Agreement | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Caspar discusses structuring a licensing deal with George, recruiting David Alleman, and putting a strict all-or-nothing commitment clause into their shareholder agreement. | |
| Developing Brand Identity and Naming the Company On | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Caspar clarifies that they never targeted solely the small Swiss market and recounts how the brand name evolved from Neon to On. | |
| Design Philosophy, Speedboard Innovation, and Grassroots Sales | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | The founders detail their industrial design inspirations, the engineering behind the Speedboard plate, and winning over skeptical retailers by running with them. | |
| The CloudTec Aesthetic and Overcoming Manufacturing Scepticism | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Raz playfully calls the open soles weird looking, prompting a humorous reaction from Caspar before Olivier shares how Chinese factory engineers initially called the design impossible. | |
| The Lunar New Year Factory Crisis and Early Ambitions | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Caspar recounts the crisis of their Chinese manufacturing partner going bankrupt right before Lunar New Year and admits their modest early revenue expectations. | |
| Mid-Show Listener Voice Memo and Submission Prompt | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Includes a listener voice memo before Raz and the founders discuss establishing a US presence in Portland and overcoming widespread confusion over their stylized logo. | |
| Ironman Hawaii Triumph and Reaching Profitability | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Olivier celebrates their 2013 Kona Ironman breakthrough, and Caspar admits they were originally annoyed when customers used their performance shoes as casual wear. | |
| The Roger Federer Partnership and Category Expansion | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Caspar explains the unique one-page partnership and equity agreement with Roger Federer that permanently doubled their search visibility and shifted them into broader sportswear. | |
| The 2021 IPO and Retaining Founder Independence | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Caspar explains opting for an IPO with a dual-class share structure to preserve founder control and focus entirely on innovation. | |
| Sustainability Ambitions, Scale, and the Interplay of Hard Work and Luck | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | The founders discuss their environmental goals for product circularity and reflect on the intersection between hard work and luck. |
Statements from this episode (26)
Bernhard gave 195 urine samples to clear 1998 doping allegations
“Because of training and diet, that was then the outcome. I was trying to work with a doping laboratory, and at the end, I think it was 195 urine samples. And you know, it was randomly taken.”
Coppetti and Bernhard's partnership began by publicizing Bernhard's doping clearance
“That was actually the first assignment for me as this press agent, like basically how do we make sure that like this makes the front page and we managed to get the story about him being cleared into pretty much every newspaper. We went on, on Swiss national TV…”
Bernhard's garden hose prototype cured his chronic Achilles issues in six weeks
“Again, I have had my Achilles issues for maybe three, three and a half years to at the end of my career. And I've seen so many doctors and specialists and nothing really helped. And within six weeks walking and running in the garden hose shoes, since today, th…”
Bernhard pitched On's early prototype to Nike, Puma, Adidas, New Balance
“We pitched it to Nike, Puma, Adidas New Balance.”
Nike refused to look at sponsored athlete Bernhard's shoe prototype
“I was an athlete, right, running for their company, becoming world champion, they didn't even want to look at the technology, not even at the drawing.”
Puma invited On's founders to headquarters to lab-test shoe prototypes
“And Puma actually invited us to their headquarters, and they, you know, to me, the CEO back then said, when we sent the shoes, he said, yeah, we sent the semi, you know,
Three, five shoes.
We're going to take it to the lab.”
On produced its first 8,000 to 10,000 shoes in South Korea
“I think it was like 10,000 or 8000 shoes we produced in Busan in South Korea.”
Coppetti conditioned joining On on ousting co-creator George Brunsweiler
“And so I made a pretty bold move and said, yes, I'm going to get involved, but without you, George.”
On's initial patent license included an outright purchase option
“So what we did is we agreed on a licensing agreement, but we also put a clause in there, luckily, that we could terminate the license agreement and purchase the patents outright.”
On founders faced mandatory share forfeiture for any side income
“We actually wrote in our shareholders agreement, and it lived there all the way through the IPO. We put down this thing when if someone, someone of us took another job or, you know, even like a side hustle or any income from any other source, we would have to …”
On launched across six countries on day one due to market size
“So we knew on day one that we couldn't be just a Swiss company. So, so we started out in six countries at once.”
On launched with 300k CHF cash and 150k CHF sweat equity
“Yeah, so we each put the 150,000 in, and Oli didn't have the cash, so we basically Took his efforts so far into the company and valid that at 150. So, so that's how we started.”
On secured roughly 500,000 CHF in orders at its first trade show
“And so we went to the show in January, literally like a couple days after we started the company with, I don't know, five, six samples. And we left the show with, or I would say about half a million Swiss francs in orders.”
On was likely the first running shoe to embed a rigid plate
“We were probably the first brand using plate, a plate in the shoe, we call it speed board.”
On secured early retail sales by running with store owners
“Casper and I, we you know, attacked the German, Austrian, and Swiss market. I think it was year one and two. Not very successful until I think it was Casper coming, you know, and saying, hey, all these retailers are actually, you know, they're runners, you kno…”
On only pursues product concepts considered impossible to build
“I think it's so deeply ingrained nowadays in the company that we only approach things that are impossible. If people are coming back, you know, after initial idea or vision, and people come back and say, oh, yeah, we can do it. I said, then we don't do it. Lea…”
On generated $1 million in revenue in its first six months
“Yeah, we did a million in the first half year, which, you know, was obviously great.”
On launched without writing a business plan or sizing the market
“We never did a business plan. We never did like a proper market sizing. All we knew was this is a big market.”
Coppetti: Trying to compete directly with Nike is suicide
“And frankly, you know, if you look at the Under Armour story, to try to compete directly with Nike is suicide.”
On buys Google search ads for "QC" due to logo confusion
“We actually, you know, buy the QC. Keyword on, on, on Google.”
On achieved profitability in 2014 and has stayed profitable
“2014 was the year that we actually then broke our first profit, and we've been profitable ever since.”
On founders resented customers wearing their high-tech shoes with jeans
“We were going to be a running company, and actually, it pissed us off. When somebody dared to wear our high-tech product industry with jeans, it really bucked us.”
On had roughly 160 million in revenue when Roger Federer approached
“At the time we were about a hundred sixty million in revenues.”
On's partnership agreement with Roger Federer fit on a single page
“Literally our agreement fit on one page. And it had none of the usual clauses, like no minimum days that he has to you know, spend with us. No, no licensing fee, nothing.”