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Jun 13, 2016 · 24m · top-founders

The Classy Way to Turn Down a $720k Shark Tank Deal Backstage, EP 283: Kim Kaupe

Nathan Latka · 11m spoken Kim Kaupe · 11m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, ZinePak co-founder Kim Kaupe discusses bootstrapping her customized entertainment merchandise company to $2.8 million in revenue and reveals why she walked away from a $725,000 Shark Tank investment backstage.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 51.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.7 Guest teaching 1.0 Guest disagreement 0.3 Nathan pushing back 0.6
05100:0010:0020:000:44–7:00 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Listener Giveaway Winner and Episode Roadmap Nathan breaks down ZinePak's unit economics, predicting wholesale price bands and calculating gross margins, which prompts Kim to praise his accuracy.7:01–9:06 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Early Revenue Growth and Founder Hustle Kim reviews her early revenue trajectory from $600k in 2011 to $2.8M in 2015, while Nathan listens and shares his preference for automated tools over manual admin.9:07–11:16 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Shark Tank Exposure and B2B Lead Generation Nathan hypothesizes that Shark Tank did not drive direct consumer sales but provided enterprise sales leverage, which Kim validates and elaborates on with MLB client examples.11:16–15:38 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Turning Down the Shark Tank Deal Backstage Nathan probes whether Kim intentionally walked away from the Shark Tank deal after securing TV exposure, and accurately anticipates the Shark demand for board seats.15:39–18:53 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Brainstorming Custom Fan Merch for The Top Nathan and Kim engage in a collaborative brainstorming session regarding physical merch and custom milestone planners for podcast listeners at an upcoming live event.18:53–21:29 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Where to Connect with Kim Kaupe Online Kim gives her social contact info before Nathan transitions into sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.21:30–23:34 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Recap Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format and closes out with a summary of Kim's revenue and company milestones.0:44–7:00 · Guest teaching 1/10 Listener Giveaway Winner and Episode Roadmap Nathan breaks down ZinePak's unit economics, predicting wholesale price bands and calculating gross margins, which prompts Kim to praise his accuracy.7:01–9:06 · Guest teaching 1/10 Early Revenue Growth and Founder Hustle Kim reviews her early revenue trajectory from $600k in 2011 to $2.8M in 2015, while Nathan listens and shares his preference for automated tools over manual admin.9:07–11:16 · Guest teaching 2/10 Shark Tank Exposure and B2B Lead Generation Nathan hypothesizes that Shark Tank did not drive direct consumer sales but provided enterprise sales leverage, which Kim validates and elaborates on with MLB client examples.11:16–15:38 · Guest teaching 2/10 Turning Down the Shark Tank Deal Backstage Nathan probes whether Kim intentionally walked away from the Shark Tank deal after securing TV exposure, and accurately anticipates the Shark demand for board seats.15:39–18:53 · Guest teaching 1/10 Brainstorming Custom Fan Merch for The Top Nathan and Kim engage in a collaborative brainstorming session regarding physical merch and custom milestone planners for podcast listeners at an upcoming live event.18:53–21:29 · Guest teaching 0/10 Where to Connect with Kim Kaupe Online Kim gives her social contact info before Nathan transitions into sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.21:30–23:34 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Recap Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format and closes out with a summary of Kim's revenue and company milestones.0:44–7:00 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Listener Giveaway Winner and Episode Roadmap Nathan breaks down ZinePak's unit economics, predicting wholesale price bands and calculating gross margins, which prompts Kim to praise his accuracy.7:01–9:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Early Revenue Growth and Founder Hustle Kim reviews her early revenue trajectory from $600k in 2011 to $2.8M in 2015, while Nathan listens and shares his preference for automated tools over manual admin.9:07–11:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Shark Tank Exposure and B2B Lead Generation Nathan hypothesizes that Shark Tank did not drive direct consumer sales but provided enterprise sales leverage, which Kim validates and elaborates on with MLB client examples.11:16–15:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Turning Down the Shark Tank Deal Backstage Nathan probes whether Kim intentionally walked away from the Shark Tank deal after securing TV exposure, and accurately anticipates the Shark demand for board seats.15:39–18:53 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Brainstorming Custom Fan Merch for The Top Nathan and Kim engage in a collaborative brainstorming session regarding physical merch and custom milestone planners for podcast listeners at an upcoming live event.18:53–21:29 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Where to Connect with Kim Kaupe Online Kim gives her social contact info before Nathan transitions into sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.21:30–23:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Recap Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format and closes out with a summary of Kim's revenue and company milestones.0:44–7:00 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Listener Giveaway Winner and Episode Roadmap Nathan breaks down ZinePak's unit economics, predicting wholesale price bands and calculating gross margins, which prompts Kim to praise his accuracy.7:01–9:06 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Early Revenue Growth and Founder Hustle Kim reviews her early revenue trajectory from $600k in 2011 to $2.8M in 2015, while Nathan listens and shares his preference for automated tools over manual admin.9:07–11:16 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Shark Tank Exposure and B2B Lead Generation Nathan hypothesizes that Shark Tank did not drive direct consumer sales but provided enterprise sales leverage, which Kim validates and elaborates on with MLB client examples.11:16–15:38 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Turning Down the Shark Tank Deal Backstage Nathan probes whether Kim intentionally walked away from the Shark Tank deal after securing TV exposure, and accurately anticipates the Shark demand for board seats.15:39–18:53 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Brainstorming Custom Fan Merch for The Top Nathan and Kim engage in a collaborative brainstorming session regarding physical merch and custom milestone planners for podcast listeners at an upcoming live event.18:53–21:29 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Where to Connect with Kim Kaupe Online Kim gives her social contact info before Nathan transitions into sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.21:30–23:34 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Recap Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format and closes out with a summary of Kim's revenue and company milestones.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 78.3% · guest 21.7%0:00 · Nathan 78.3% · guest 21.7%3:00 · Nathan 28.2% · guest 71.8%3:00 · Nathan 28.2% · guest 71.8%6:00 · Nathan 34.4% · guest 65.6%6:00 · Nathan 34.4% · guest 65.6%9:00 · Nathan 32.9% · guest 67.1%9:00 · Nathan 32.9% · guest 67.1%12:00 · Nathan 29.8% · guest 70.2%12:00 · Nathan 29.8% · guest 70.2%15:00 · Nathan 40.3% · guest 59.7%15:00 · Nathan 40.3% · guest 59.7%18:00 · Nathan 85.1% · guest 14.9%18:00 · Nathan 85.1% · guest 14.9%21:00 · Nathan 67.8% · guest 32.2%21:00 · Nathan 67.8% · guest 32.2%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 14:47 Firm rejection of Shark delegation

Kim firmly explains why they rejected the Sharks post-show, refusing to give up equity to celebrities who only delegate communication to junior marketing staff.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:06 Nathan challenges motive behind walking away

Nathan directly asks whether Kim drew hard lines during due diligence on purpose just to take advantage of the free television exposure without giving up equity.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:41 Kim clarifies B2B Shark Tank strategy

Kim explains the difference between typical consumer product sales on Shark Tank and how B2B companies leverage executive viewership to land major sports teams like the Red Sox and Mets.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 5:42 Nathan predicts unit price bands

Nathan accurately guesses the exact $3-$5 unit price band for VIP merchandise packages, prompting Kim to jokingly offer him a job.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Listener Giveaway Winner and Episode Roadmap 6101 Nathan breaks down ZinePak's unit economics, predicting wholesale price bands and calculating gross margins, which prompts Kim to praise his accuracy.
Early Revenue Growth and Founder Hustle 3100 Kim reviews her early revenue trajectory from $600k in 2011 to $2.8M in 2015, while Nathan listens and shares his preference for automated tools over manual admin.
Shark Tank Exposure and B2B Lead Generation 5211 Nathan hypothesizes that Shark Tank did not drive direct consumer sales but provided enterprise sales leverage, which Kim validates and elaborates on with MLB client examples.
Turning Down the Shark Tank Deal Backstage 6212 Nathan probes whether Kim intentionally walked away from the Shark Tank deal after securing TV exposure, and accurately anticipates the Shark demand for board seats.
Brainstorming Custom Fan Merch for The Top 3100 Nathan and Kim engage in a collaborative brainstorming session regarding physical merch and custom milestone planners for podcast listeners at an upcoming live event.
Where to Connect with Kim Kaupe Online 1000 Kim gives her social contact info before Nathan transitions into sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Recap 2000 Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format and closes out with a summary of Kim's revenue and company milestones.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Supported
Kaupe: ZinePak Created VIP Package Merchandise for Bieber and Mendes Tours
“So we have product that's out right now with two of my favorite artists two great guys, Justin Bieber and Shawn Mendes. So if you are out and seeing them on tour over the next couple months you can see pieces that we've done with them through their VIP. So if …”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 3:11
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Katy Perry ordered over 200,000 merchandise units from ZinePak
“You know, we've done album launches, for example, with Katy Perry and she's ordering north of 200,000 units of something.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 4:54
Disclosure
ZinePak targets 20% to 35% margins but discounts for major stars
“We always try to shoot for anywhere from, you know, a 20, 25, 30%, 35% profit margin, but I have to be honest, I have girl crushes just like everybody else, and there have been some artists where if we can't get the numbers to work, I'm just like, fine, you kn…”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 5:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kaupe: ZinePak generated $600k in cash revenue in 2011
“Our total revenue on a cash basis was 600,000 dollars.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 7:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kaupe: ZinePak generated $2.8 million in revenue in 2015
“2015, we did 2.8, I believe.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 9:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kaupe: ZinePak signed Red Sox and Mets as clients from Shark Tank
“Since the episode aired in April, now we're coming up to, you know, a full year since it aired, we're working with the Boston Red Sox, we're working with the New York Mets, and all of those are clients that came from Shark Tank.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 10:17
Disclosure
ZinePak walked away from its Shark Tank deal during due diligence
“Well, we actually didn't go through with our deal. We did the deal on the show, and then in due diligence, we ended up not going through the deal, but we still remain very friendly with everybody, but for us, it was really the exposure on the show.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 10:45
Assertion Partly supported
ZinePak negotiated an on-air Shark Tank deal of $725k for 17.5%
“Our ask on the show was 725,000 dollars for 17 and a half percent is what the deal ended up being, going through for and I think we originally went in asking for 725,000 for 15% if I remember correctly.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 11:41
Disclosure
Kaupe: ZinePak has taken zero outside investment and owns 100% equity
“No, no, no, we haven't taken investment up until this point, so. We're still owning all the equity ourselves.”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 14:07
Opinion
Shark Tank investors delegate portfolio founder support to junior marketing staff
“Their time is very limited. So they might say, well, you know, I don't have any time for you, but these people on my marketing team will totally talk to you. And, you know, for us, it was kind of like, We kind of want to get in bed with the person, not necessa…”
Kim Kaupe Jun 13, 2016 ▶ 15:13
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