Oct 17, 2022 · 1h 7m · how-i-built-this
Culver's: Craig Culver
0:00 / 0:00
gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, Craig Culver shares how he and his family built Culver's from a struggling Wisconsin drive-in into a multi-billion-dollar fast-food powerhouse. Craig reveals how defying fast-food norms with a broad menu, prioritizing genuine hospitality, and maintaining disciplined franchise expansion turned the ButterBurger and frozen custard chain into a nationwide success.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 43.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 2.5 Guest disagreement 1.1 Guy pushing back 1.1
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 50:17 Craig shuts down the Better Burger rebrand proposal
Craig forcefully recalls slapping his hand on the desk and refusing to dilute the brand's identity when pressured by a franchisee.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 30:06 Guy questions the complexity of a massive menuGuy challenges Craig by contrasting Culver's wide variety against modern streamlined fast-casual models like Chipotle and Five Guys.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 30:23 Craig educates Guy on small-town demographic requirementsCraig explains that unlike niche urban fast-food concepts targeting narrow demographics, a small-town Wisconsin restaurant must cater to all age groups to survive.
Guy holds their own ▶ 1:16 Guy frames Culver's defiance of the paradox of choiceGuy draws on Barry Schwartz's psychological research to analyze Culver's operational efficiency and menu strategy relative to industry giants.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Childhood and the Family A&W Drive-In | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy establishes the historical context of early 1960s car-hop culture and the family A&W. Craig details the operational reality of running a seasonal shack with no markings on gravel parking lots. | |
| The Farm Kitchen Resort and a Missed Opportunity | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy explores Craig's college years and father's resort business. Craig candidly admits the major regret of rejecting his father's offer to become general manager of Farm Kitchen. | |
| McDonald's Management Training and Repurchasing the A&W | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy tracks Craig's progression through McDonald's management training and the subsequent decision to repurchase the family A&W restaurant. | |
| The Ritz Supper Club and Reclaiming the Drive-In | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Guy overestimates the 1976 acquisition cost at half a million dollars, prompting Craig to correct the valuation figures before recounting how the land contract default returned the property to them. | |
| Launching Culver's: ButterBurgers and Frozen Custard | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Guy probes the technical differentiation of frozen custard and butterburgers. Craig educates Guy on custard density, low air incorporation, and early smashburger techniques. | |
| Overcoming Early Losses Through Small-Town Menus and Word of Mouth | 5 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Guy challenges the decision to maintain a massive menu by contrasting it with streamlined concepts like Chipotle and Raising Cane's. Craig explains the necessity of broad menus in small-town demographics. | |
| Hospitality Culture and the Drive-Thru Turning Point | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy and Craig discuss the culture of hospitality inspired by Craig's mother and the pivotal operational shift from canopy car hops to a hybrid drive-thru. | |
| Family Division of Labor and Hands-On Operations | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks how family responsibilities were delegated. Craig describes their division of labor and cooking extensive fresh provisions from scratch. | |
| The First Franchise Stumble and Halting Growth | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Craig explains the failure of their first franchisee and why Culver's halted franchise expansion for a year to build a rigorous 17-week training infrastructure. | |
| Sponsor Segment: Audible Audiobook Service | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | Following the Audible sponsor break, Craig recounts refusing a Chicago franchisee's demand to rename the ButterBurger and using dismissive remarks from a McDonald's peer as fuel. | |
| Concentric Expansion and the Personal Costs of Scale | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy addresses the personal toll of rapid growth and Craig's divorce from Lee. Craig openly reflects on his lack of work-life balance and missed family moments. | |
| Leadership Transition, Roark Capital Partnership, and Navigating COVID-19 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks about selling a minority 30% stake to Roark Capital and steering the company through COVID-19 without layoffs via drive-thru hospitality. | |
| Brand Innovation, Hard Work, and Long-Term Vigilance | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Guy questions how Culver's responds to industry trends like the chicken boom and asks Craig to weigh hard work versus luck. |
Statements from this episode (24)
The Culver family's original A&W drive-in sold 15-cent burgers without indoor seating
“The little shack of a building had the bathroom on the outside of the building gravel parking lot, five and 10 cent root beer, 15 cent hot dogs, hamburgers, and french fries. We sold cigarettes of all things, and car hop service. There was no inside seating.”
Craig Culver's family sold their A&W drive-in franchise for $350,000
“When we sold it to these two gentlemen, I believe the number was 350,000 we sold it at.”
Buyers of the Culver family's A&W defaulted after two years
“We only had it two years because the people that bought the A&W from us were failing. And remember, this was bought in a land contract. It's our money in there. And eventually one day we got a phone call. Saying, please take this thing back.”
Culver's ButterBurger and custard concept was inspired by a Milwaukee custard stand
“One day while I was at the Ritz in the afternoon, not much going on, sitting down with a friend of mine, and he was from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and he was telling me about when he was a kid, there was a little custard stand called the Milky Way, and they served…”
Culver's pioneered the smashburger technique long before modern chains popularized it
“We did it well before any of those people did it.”
Culver's refuses to compromise ingredient quality to increase profit margins
“When it comes to quality, we may have to charge more, and we do at Culver's but we're not gonna cheapen something to get to a bottom line easier.”
Small-town restaurants must offer broad menus to survive, says Craig Culver
“Well, in a small town, you've got to attract
Everybody.
Young people, the middle-aged people, the seniors, and coming from the supper club business, we were used to big menus and things like that, but thinking back, I mean, I would have loved to had a simple m…”
Culver: Culver's Did Not Make a Profit Until Its Third Year
“And so our business started, people were coming from 50 miles around to have frozen custard or a butter burger, and it was the third year when we made money.”
Restaurants should operate short-staffed rather than hire workers who lack heart
“And just to hire bodies, it's not the right answer. I'd rather go without than hire, you know, people that
Just don't have a heart.”
Adding a drive-thru pushed the original Culver's past $1 million in sales
“We, I think we did like six, 700,000 dollars the prior year. He said, if you put a drive through in, you'll take this place over a million dollars in sales. And at that time, that was a milestone to have a million dollar restaurant. And so we made that decisio…”
Drive-thru sales at Culver's grew from 20% to over 60% of revenue
“Back then, I mean, our drive-thru was maybe 20% of our sales. Today, it's in excess of 60% of our business, so.”
Craig Culver admits modern food suppliers outperform Culver's original in-house prep
“We've got suppliers that probably do a better job at what we were doing back then than what we did.”
Culver: Culver's franchisee training program lasts 17 weeks
“Today it's a 17 week program at Culver's.”
Culver's halted franchise expansion for a year when growth outpaced training capacity
“So early on, yeah, we did grow by about 14 restaurants in a year's time in the early nineties, and we couldn't handle that growth. It was too much for us. We didn't have the infrastructure in place, meaning we didn't have the people in place to open those rest…”
Culver: Denying prospective franchisees makes them want franchises even more
“When you tell somebody that's interested in a franchise that they can't have one, They want it even more.”
Growing through corporate-owned stores would have forced Culver's to go public
“In order for us to grow that way, it would have been very slow, and eventually we would have probably had to go public to get more funds.”
Craig Culver views his restaurant visits as cheerleading rather than inspecting
“Today, and I visit a great deal of restaurants, and I'm not going in there to be an inspector. I'm a cheerleader. But obviously, if I see something that's definitely wrong, I'll change it on the spot. But that's not why I visit the restaurants.”
Employees, not customers, are the most important people in a business
“The most important person in your business, it's the customer. Stupid. It's the customer. No, it's your team members. And if they know that they're that highly regarded, they're going to take care of our customers or our guests, as we like to say, as if my mot…”
Expanding franchises in concentric geographic circles reduces operational risk
“We continue to grow in concentric circles, so we take our brand along with us, and that's very important because that takes a lot of the risk out of it for the, that operator opening just outside the last restaurant.”
The Culver family sold a 30% minority stake to Roark Capital
“Where you're going is we sold 30% of the business to work capital.
Minority share.
Family still has 70%, so we truly own the company.”
Culver's opened 101 restaurants and grew comp sales 26% during COVID-19
“During the pandemic, we opened a 101 restaurants and we were up a combined
like, 26% in comp sales.”
New fast-food menu items typically lose consumer interest after eight weeks
“Innovation is, is very, very important, but just because you bring in a new product doesn't make Your business necessarily stronger. New things. I mean, it's great if you hit a home run and it's on your menu board forever or whatever, but usually give it six t…”