The Ledger, every show

“That's a bit of a plot twist over here. We, I actually don't think RAG works at all.”

“One of my big predictions is that over 50% of the global GDP will be contributed by AI agents sometime in the next decade.”

“One of the things that is a massive fallacy in AI applications today is verticalization. As paramount. All of the VCs, a lot of entrepreneurs as well, believe, because it's been true for the last 20 years, that building a very verticalized piece of software is…”

“I think it's old news. And I think the only reason we still talk about it, it's like everyone talks about hallucinations and, you know, no one knows if it's happening or what's going on. It's like fugazi fugazi. Like, it was a problem back when the models were…”

“I don't mean to be relatively pessimistic, but I wouldn't start a company in AI. I mean that from the perspective of, like, the alpha is gone.”

“I'm very short Accenture and consultancies, but and the big four.”

“China has not shown that they can actually continue to play ball, ah, pushing the frontier of AI.”

“First, when AGI is here, there will be a massive correction in the financial markets. That is actually my Turing test is if AGI is here, will it actually be able to make significantly more money than a human investor? Better than human investing. And I think p…”

“You can bucket great founders into three backgrounds. The most common is that you have kind of a messed up childhood. The second most common would be, ah, you're gay, and the third most common would be you were adopted. Look at like a list of all-time greats. …”

“I don't even think ChatGPT is a really good product. It's like a calculator. It's got the technology in there encapsulated in a very simple form. But it's not a product that, like in Excel, that lets you just build whatever you'd like with it.”

“I think, like, 90% of enterprise AI right now is almost like this vapor where, hey, we swear it works, like, look at this amazing demo where we ask, What does the CEO say about the investment? And the minute that they actually go to, you know, try to use it in…”

“I actually don't agree with that at all. I think he's completely wrong. I think it depends on how you define a business app. But I actually think that if the new business apps are platforms, you'll, you'll actually start to see those platforms really take hold…”

“I ultimately, genuinely believe that more than 50% of the GDP will be contributed by what you can call agentic applications in the next few decades, yeah. I actually think it'll happen faster than the next few decades.”

“You know, there's all these stories, and, you know, you have, like, Klarna that's positioning for investors that they're firing half their staff, and no one really wants, and I think. I think it's BS, yeah.”

“And so you saw the idea of, ah, of post training or kind of like this refined, verticalized model creation, ah, just always would lose to scaling laws. And maybe we're at the end of scaling laws at training, but I actually think, you know, Hebbia and now OpenA…”

“I think XAI is the most undervalued company, and a really spicy take. I actually think XAI might overtake OpenAI and Anthropic in value over the next, you know, 12 to 24 months.”

“I genuinely believe all AI companies and the S&P 500 are all undervalued, which is a very hot take. But again, if we're about to create a hundred trillion dollars of value, I think this is a real tangible Technological shift. It's a massive unlock on the order…”

“I think that ultimately I don't think they are. I think that I think that Salesforce Like, has built, again, like, a very, very, very sticky network effect with people, and people are the shifting function at the end of the day. It's not a technology problem. …”

“You're going to start to have, you know, fully human organizations. Actually fully AI organizations like the one person billion dollar startup or, you know, these things that are effectively just APIs. And you'll actually have, and this will be the most common…”

“As agents are rolled out, you'll actually start to see you know, people that are really good at prompting, really good at defining a process, be the best managers, and actually be the best at extending whatever their agenda is in the organization, or making th…”

“And actually the whole scaling at inference paradigm was pioneered at Hebbia. So our early matrix product two years ago, we're one of the first people to say, hey, you get way better accuracy from using more large language model calls at runtime.”

“Chatbots are, in my eyes, like the TI-eighty-four, or like the HP-twelve-c, like a calculator. It's a one-off, you know, I'm gonna go and put in my equation and then get a response. Nobody does their taxes in a calculator. Nobody, you know, computes a DCF or, …”

“Hebbia were actually the first to turn that into a product. So it's like a very close thing to my heart. So back in 2020, we were the first people to actually productionize it, roll it out.”

“And we came up with a novel re-ranker architecture, which four years later, academia and industry have not beat, and we do not use it.”

“I think not a lot of people are saying it, but I think like SF has a really big group think.”

“Right now, it's less around pain, it's less around, like, standard enterprise SaaS cycles, and probably more around FOMO, around missed upside, around value cases that are really hard to define.”

“So I firmly believe that being an investment banking junior won't look the same as it looked five years ago. I definitely believe the same for investors, for lawyers, for everyone else. But I actually don't really think that that will decrease the amount of jo…”

“And this is a technique scaling at inference that was first actually pioneered at Hebbia, and we quickly noticed another scaling law, where if we ran more models and basically more compute at inference time, you could get much better results for very complex t…”

“America, I believe, is so far ahead, and I think that it will continue to be so far ahead and these technologies, you know, every single year are so much exponentially better than the last year that we have the head start, and I think that we'll continue to ha…”

“If you look at ChatGPT and the limitations of like, you give it to a bunch of investors and you ask it to draft an IC memo for a company like Hebbia, every single VC would get the same IC memo out.”

“Hebbia's got like an infinite effective context window and then when you look at a new opportunity, you could filter to a variety of other opportunities that were similar and actually begin to piece out how it's different, how it's similar and all the pieces t…”

“One of the big pieces and unlocks that had the experience was coming to the realization that nobody knows what to use AI for. Like, you know, people pretend to go and create all these amazing demos, but nobody knows what to do with it.”

“And you can actually look at our product today and you could argue that it could do almost any task that a junior analyst could do better than a junior analyst.”

“You need to get to the usage first before you charge on consumption, because the minute you charge on consumption or you charge on, you know, number of agents and times of salary, You actually are disincentivizing the change that is required to build an AI nat…”

“Like, you can bring a lemonade stand to a hundred million dollars in ARR. Like, there's nothing that's actually stopped. You can brute force your way as a founder. You screw product market. You can literally brute force anything in the world.”

“And so all of these questions, it was actually almost 90% of the questions that people were asking these systems weren't answerable by search through the documents. But rather they had to be work done on top of the documents and then answered.”

“If there was a hundred trillion dollars of value that was created in the stock market from the introduction of the computer, or the fundamental unit of compute, I actually think a hundred trillion dollars of value will be created in the next 60 years from the …”

“I think that it will change the way that people do work, but I genuinely believe that, ah, it'll actually increase the AUM of the firms that use it. I think it will actually drive more employment.”

“So then GPT-IV was released, I think, like a few weeks later. I don't know exactly any of the right timeline, but it just destroyed Bloomberg GPT at every single finance task.”

“I, you know, I think that ultimately the model layer, and I think this is not a hot take anymore. I've been saying it for a few years, but I think it will become commoditized. I think that a lot of value will accrue at the hardware layer especially And we coul…”

“I can switch models readily. Like, I think there's even entire businesses now There will be an entire industry of being able to switch models from OpenAI to Anthropic when OpenAI goes down, but just to switch clouds is like, you know, for any, like, substantia…”

“The better agents are, the more work that they do, the more important it will be that they are easily understood by humans. The idea would be, okay, let's say we have a bunch of employees, 10,000 employees, or 10,000 AI agents drop at a company. They're all ex…”

“The shift away from training to inference as a fundamental, like, almost macro shift in how people deploy AI. I actually think that will destabilize slightly the dominance of NVIDIA chips.”

“The CTO or the IT folks are actually the people that know the least about the business. The people that, that actually understand how to use AI in a business context are those that are closest to the business.”

“And I think that, ah, when you charge for consumption or API pricing, you're disincentivizing the change. You're saying, ok, well I'm gonna penalize you in a monetary way for every time you use an AI application.”

“Would I sell for, no, no, I would not.”

“I believe that UFOs are real. I think a little bit more on the nose right now, but I actually believe there's fundamentally different propulsion technology and that I think the US government has access to it.”

“So we built a team of a hundred amazing incredibly smart folks all five days a week, sometimes six in office in New York city.”