Oct 14, 2018 · 25m · top-founders

1177 Then Turn Your Customers into Advocates, North of $12m in ARR

Rob Fugetta · 15m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Rob Fugetta, founder and CEO of Zuberance, about scaling an advocate marketing SaaS platform to over $12 million in ARR. Fugetta breaks down Zuberance's enterprise unit economics, non-cash customer motivation strategies, and how brands mobilize authentic customer evangelists to outperform traditional influencer campaigns.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 31.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 2.1 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:0020:000:00–3:27 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Episode Preview: Key Metrics of Zuberance Nathan sets up the interview by estimating ACV and business models, prompting Rob to clarify that average contract values fall higher in the enterprise range between $10K and $20K per month.3:27–5:44 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founding Zuberance and Lessons from Apple Nathan inquires about the 2008 founding context and venture backing, while Rob describes learning word-of-mouth dynamics firsthand while doing marketing at Apple.5:44–8:27 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Funding Scale, Revenue Structure, and Word of Mouth Nathan presses Rob on SaaS vs. campaign revenue structures and calculates a $1M+ monthly run rate. Rob avoids exact financial disclosure and pivots to broader advocacy trust statistics.8:27–11:13 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Motivating Brand Advocates Without Cash Incentives When Nathan assumes Zuberance sends free hardware to seed advocates, Rob corrects the premise, explaining that the platform specifically activates genuine existing owners rather than paid reviewers.11:13–13:38 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Managing Advocate Communities and Data Ownership Nathan asks whether Zuberance cross-promotes advocate lists across customer brands, and Rob explains data governance boundaries where advocates belong strictly to the brand network.13:40–17:46 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Enterprise Unit Economics, CAC Payback, and Team Nathan presses into unit economics and CAC. When Rob is unsure of fully diluted CAC, Nathan restates the question in terms of payback period and drives the estimate down to under six months.17:47–20:13 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Growth Trajectory and Authentic Advocacy Market Shift Rob provides ambiguous commentary about upcoming growth, leading Nathan to demand specific year-over-year percentages, pinning him to a 20-25% annual figure.20:14–24:00 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Famous Five: Executive Habits and Brand Advocates Book Nathan conducts the Famous Five, prodding Rob to stick to one book and jokingly asking if he engaged in smear campaigns during his Apple days, which Rob rejects.24:01–25:04 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Advice to 20-Year-Old Self: It Takes a Village Rob shares his retrospective advice about the necessity of teamwork, and Nathan recaps the company's core SaaS metrics in the outro.0:00–3:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Episode Preview: Key Metrics of Zuberance Nathan sets up the interview by estimating ACV and business models, prompting Rob to clarify that average contract values fall higher in the enterprise range between $10K and $20K per month.3:27–5:44 · Guest teaching 3/10 Founding Zuberance and Lessons from Apple Nathan inquires about the 2008 founding context and venture backing, while Rob describes learning word-of-mouth dynamics firsthand while doing marketing at Apple.5:44–8:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Funding Scale, Revenue Structure, and Word of Mouth Nathan presses Rob on SaaS vs. campaign revenue structures and calculates a $1M+ monthly run rate. Rob avoids exact financial disclosure and pivots to broader advocacy trust statistics.8:27–11:13 · Guest teaching 5/10 Motivating Brand Advocates Without Cash Incentives When Nathan assumes Zuberance sends free hardware to seed advocates, Rob corrects the premise, explaining that the platform specifically activates genuine existing owners rather than paid reviewers.11:13–13:38 · Guest teaching 4/10 Managing Advocate Communities and Data Ownership Nathan asks whether Zuberance cross-promotes advocate lists across customer brands, and Rob explains data governance boundaries where advocates belong strictly to the brand network.13:40–17:46 · Guest teaching 2/10 Enterprise Unit Economics, CAC Payback, and Team Nathan presses into unit economics and CAC. When Rob is unsure of fully diluted CAC, Nathan restates the question in terms of payback period and drives the estimate down to under six months.17:47–20:13 · Guest teaching 2/10 Growth Trajectory and Authentic Advocacy Market Shift Rob provides ambiguous commentary about upcoming growth, leading Nathan to demand specific year-over-year percentages, pinning him to a 20-25% annual figure.20:14–24:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Famous Five: Executive Habits and Brand Advocates Book Nathan conducts the Famous Five, prodding Rob to stick to one book and jokingly asking if he engaged in smear campaigns during his Apple days, which Rob rejects.24:01–25:04 · Guest teaching 1/10 Advice to 20-Year-Old Self: It Takes a Village Rob shares his retrospective advice about the necessity of teamwork, and Nathan recaps the company's core SaaS metrics in the outro.0:00–3:27 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Episode Preview: Key Metrics of Zuberance Nathan sets up the interview by estimating ACV and business models, prompting Rob to clarify that average contract values fall higher in the enterprise range between $10K and $20K per month.3:27–5:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Zuberance and Lessons from Apple Nathan inquires about the 2008 founding context and venture backing, while Rob describes learning word-of-mouth dynamics firsthand while doing marketing at Apple.5:44–8:27 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Funding Scale, Revenue Structure, and Word of Mouth Nathan presses Rob on SaaS vs. campaign revenue structures and calculates a $1M+ monthly run rate. Rob avoids exact financial disclosure and pivots to broader advocacy trust statistics.8:27–11:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Motivating Brand Advocates Without Cash Incentives When Nathan assumes Zuberance sends free hardware to seed advocates, Rob corrects the premise, explaining that the platform specifically activates genuine existing owners rather than paid reviewers.11:13–13:38 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Managing Advocate Communities and Data Ownership Nathan asks whether Zuberance cross-promotes advocate lists across customer brands, and Rob explains data governance boundaries where advocates belong strictly to the brand network.13:40–17:46 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Enterprise Unit Economics, CAC Payback, and Team Nathan presses into unit economics and CAC. When Rob is unsure of fully diluted CAC, Nathan restates the question in terms of payback period and drives the estimate down to under six months.17:47–20:13 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Growth Trajectory and Authentic Advocacy Market Shift Rob provides ambiguous commentary about upcoming growth, leading Nathan to demand specific year-over-year percentages, pinning him to a 20-25% annual figure.20:14–24:00 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Famous Five: Executive Habits and Brand Advocates Book Nathan conducts the Famous Five, prodding Rob to stick to one book and jokingly asking if he engaged in smear campaigns during his Apple days, which Rob rejects.24:01–25:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Advice to 20-Year-Old Self: It Takes a Village Rob shares his retrospective advice about the necessity of teamwork, and Nathan recaps the company's core SaaS metrics in the outro.0:00–3:27 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Episode Preview: Key Metrics of Zuberance Nathan sets up the interview by estimating ACV and business models, prompting Rob to clarify that average contract values fall higher in the enterprise range between $10K and $20K per month.3:27–5:44 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Founding Zuberance and Lessons from Apple Nathan inquires about the 2008 founding context and venture backing, while Rob describes learning word-of-mouth dynamics firsthand while doing marketing at Apple.5:44–8:27 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Funding Scale, Revenue Structure, and Word of Mouth Nathan presses Rob on SaaS vs. campaign revenue structures and calculates a $1M+ monthly run rate. Rob avoids exact financial disclosure and pivots to broader advocacy trust statistics.8:27–11:13 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Motivating Brand Advocates Without Cash Incentives When Nathan assumes Zuberance sends free hardware to seed advocates, Rob corrects the premise, explaining that the platform specifically activates genuine existing owners rather than paid reviewers.11:13–13:38 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Managing Advocate Communities and Data Ownership Nathan asks whether Zuberance cross-promotes advocate lists across customer brands, and Rob explains data governance boundaries where advocates belong strictly to the brand network.13:40–17:46 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Enterprise Unit Economics, CAC Payback, and Team Nathan presses into unit economics and CAC. When Rob is unsure of fully diluted CAC, Nathan restates the question in terms of payback period and drives the estimate down to under six months.17:47–20:13 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Growth Trajectory and Authentic Advocacy Market Shift Rob provides ambiguous commentary about upcoming growth, leading Nathan to demand specific year-over-year percentages, pinning him to a 20-25% annual figure.20:14–24:00 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Famous Five: Executive Habits and Brand Advocates Book Nathan conducts the Famous Five, prodding Rob to stick to one book and jokingly asking if he engaged in smear campaigns during his Apple days, which Rob rejects.24:01–25:04 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Advice to 20-Year-Old Self: It Takes a Village Rob shares his retrospective advice about the necessity of teamwork, and Nathan recaps the company's core SaaS metrics in the outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 68.3% · guest 31.7%0:00 · Nathan 68.3% · guest 31.7%3:00 · Nathan 23.3% · guest 76.7%3:00 · Nathan 23.3% · guest 76.7%6:00 · Nathan 16.6% · guest 83.4%6:00 · Nathan 16.6% · guest 83.4%9:00 · Nathan 13% · guest 87%9:00 · Nathan 13% · guest 87%12:00 · Nathan 46.6% · guest 53.4%12:00 · Nathan 46.6% · guest 53.4%15:00 · Nathan 30.5% · guest 69.5%15:00 · Nathan 30.5% · guest 69.5%18:00 · Nathan 15.3% · guest 84.7%18:00 · Nathan 15.3% · guest 84.7%21:00 · Nathan 30.4% · guest 69.6%21:00 · Nathan 30.4% · guest 69.6%24:00 · Nathan 43.5% · guest 56.5%24:00 · Nathan 43.5% · guest 56.5%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:22 Rejecting negative campaigning premise

Rob firmly denies engaging in negative or smear marketing campaigns at Apple or Zuberance after Nathan probes him with skeptical framing.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 16:19 Demanding concrete payback figures

Nathan refuses Rob's vague response about onboarding effort and repeatedly drills down until he extracts an exact six-month payback timeline.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:16 Educating on organic customer evangelism

Rob directly corrects Nathan's assumption that Zuberance mails free trial products to influencers, explaining that true advocacy relies on existing verified owners.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 6:56 Host calculates million-dollar MRR run rate

Nathan synthesizes customer volume and ACV metrics to deduce that Zuberance is running well over $1M per month in revenue.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Episode Preview: Key Metrics of Zuberance 5323 Nathan sets up the interview by estimating ACV and business models, prompting Rob to clarify that average contract values fall higher in the enterprise range between $10K and $20K per month.
Founding Zuberance and Lessons from Apple 4311 Nathan inquires about the 2008 founding context and venture backing, while Rob describes learning word-of-mouth dynamics firsthand while doing marketing at Apple.
Funding Scale, Revenue Structure, and Word of Mouth 6335 Nathan presses Rob on SaaS vs. campaign revenue structures and calculates a $1M+ monthly run rate. Rob avoids exact financial disclosure and pivots to broader advocacy trust statistics.
Motivating Brand Advocates Without Cash Incentives 3522 When Nathan assumes Zuberance sends free hardware to seed advocates, Rob corrects the premise, explaining that the platform specifically activates genuine existing owners rather than paid reviewers.
Managing Advocate Communities and Data Ownership 4423 Nathan asks whether Zuberance cross-promotes advocate lists across customer brands, and Rob explains data governance boundaries where advocates belong strictly to the brand network.
Enterprise Unit Economics, CAC Payback, and Team 6226 Nathan presses into unit economics and CAC. When Rob is unsure of fully diluted CAC, Nathan restates the question in terms of payback period and drives the estimate down to under six months.
Growth Trajectory and Authentic Advocacy Market Shift 5235 Rob provides ambiguous commentary about upcoming growth, leading Nathan to demand specific year-over-year percentages, pinning him to a 20-25% annual figure.
Famous Five: Executive Habits and Brand Advocates Book 4234 Nathan conducts the Famous Five, prodding Rob to stick to one book and jokingly asking if he engaged in smear campaigns during his Apple days, which Rob rejects.
Advice to 20-Year-Old Self: It Takes a Village 4111 Rob shares his retrospective advice about the necessity of teamwork, and Nathan recaps the company's core SaaS metrics in the outro.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Partly supported
Zuberance builds advocate marketing programs for Lyft, TiVo, and Intuit
“So we are an advocate marketing company and what we do for brands like Lyft and TiVo and Intuit and others is we help them build and what we call an advocate army.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 1:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance's average customer pays $10,000 to $20,000 per month
“That would be more on the lower end, Nathan. I think average is more in the 10 to 20 K range.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 2:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance pitched lead investor Emergence Capital during the 2008 market crash
“Actually the day we were in pitching to the company that became our lead investor is the day that the stock market had its now infamous market meltdown.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 3:42
Disclosure
Zuberance has raised about $15 million in capital
“About fifteen million.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 5:49
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance has over 100 brands on monthly subscriptions
“Yeah, over a hundred, I would say.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 6:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance has been profitable since 2015
“We've been profitable since 2015.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 7:12
Disclosure
Zuberance never uses cash incentives for brand advocates
“Never cash, and we also do things with charitable contributions as well.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 9:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance mobilized over 250,000 advocates for Intuit QuickBooks
“Just to give you an example for one brand alone, Intuit QuickBooks. We have marshaled an army of over 250,000 QuickBooks advocates, right?”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 11:23
Disclosure
Brand advocates belong to clients, not a shared Zuberance network
“These advocates belong to the brands, right? So they're not part of a Zuberance advocate network. They're part, a Neato robotics advocate is part of the Neato network”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 12:18
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance maintains over 80% annual customer retention on ongoing programs
“Once they move out of the campaign basis and they go to an ongoing program the retention rate for those customers is over 80%. Annually, right.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 13:54
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Zuberance employs roughly 25 people across Silicon Valley and India
“So about 25 people we have a pretty sizable technology team offshore in India under a fantastic CTO that's based here in Silicon Valley.”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 17:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Zuberance is growing revenue 20% to 25% year over year
“No, it's more in the 20, 20%, 25% range, which is manageable”
Rob Fugetta Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 18:30
Opinion
Latka: Apple and Google amplified Facebook's Cambridge Analytica scandal
“I really believe that Apple, Google, these guys that see Facebook as a threat are doing a great job right now at propping up this Cambridge Analytica scandal.”
Nathan Latka Oct 14, 2018 ▶ 21:08
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