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Aug 19, 2019 · 15m · top-founders

1486 Digital Signage Management Passes $4.2M in ARR, Bootstrapped

Nathan Latka · 7m spoken Byron Darlison · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Byron Darlison, founder and CEO of Rise Vision, exploring how the company bootstrapped a cloud digital signage and financial display platform to $4.2 million in ARR with 6,000 paying customers and a fully remote team.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 52.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:000:00–2:02 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Promotion for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital This segment consists of an introductory monologue, book promotion, summary of the guest's business metrics, and a canned podcast intro.2:03–4:13 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Rise Vision Value Proposition and Transition to SaaS Model Darlison politely corrects Latka on the company name being Rise Vision rather than Rise Holdings. Latka then asks exploratory questions about the product and shift from hardware installations to SaaS.4:13–8:00 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Founding Timeline, Reuters Partnership, and Freemium SaaS Economics Latka rapidly calculates the company's free-to-paid ratios and approximate monthly recurring revenue from Byron's percentages. Darlison educates Latka on the history of trading labs migrating from Wall Street floors into universities and high schools.8:01–10:21 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Venture Debt Perspective, and Churn Breakdown Latka drills into the churn dynamics, immediately deducing from the difference between 1.3% logo churn and 4% gross revenue churn that high-ACV trading desk customers are leaving. Darlison confirms this deduction and shares his preference for non-dilutive debt financing.10:21–13:45 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Fast Activation, and Technical Infrastructure Latka challenges Darlison's payback period math and questions why users cannot simply use AirPlay instead of purchasing Rise Vision hardware players. Darlison explains that commercial 24/7 reliability requires dedicated, hardwired Chrome devices.0:00–2:02 · Guest teaching 0/10 Promotion for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital This segment consists of an introductory monologue, book promotion, summary of the guest's business metrics, and a canned podcast intro.2:03–4:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Rise Vision Value Proposition and Transition to SaaS Model Darlison politely corrects Latka on the company name being Rise Vision rather than Rise Holdings. Latka then asks exploratory questions about the product and shift from hardware installations to SaaS.4:13–8:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 Founding Timeline, Reuters Partnership, and Freemium SaaS Economics Latka rapidly calculates the company's free-to-paid ratios and approximate monthly recurring revenue from Byron's percentages. Darlison educates Latka on the history of trading labs migrating from Wall Street floors into universities and high schools.8:01–10:21 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Venture Debt Perspective, and Churn Breakdown Latka drills into the churn dynamics, immediately deducing from the difference between 1.3% logo churn and 4% gross revenue churn that high-ACV trading desk customers are leaving. Darlison confirms this deduction and shares his preference for non-dilutive debt financing.10:21–13:45 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Fast Activation, and Technical Infrastructure Latka challenges Darlison's payback period math and questions why users cannot simply use AirPlay instead of purchasing Rise Vision hardware players. Darlison explains that commercial 24/7 reliability requires dedicated, hardwired Chrome devices.0:00–2:02 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promotion for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital This segment consists of an introductory monologue, book promotion, summary of the guest's business metrics, and a canned podcast intro.2:03–4:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Rise Vision Value Proposition and Transition to SaaS Model Darlison politely corrects Latka on the company name being Rise Vision rather than Rise Holdings. Latka then asks exploratory questions about the product and shift from hardware installations to SaaS.4:13–8:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Timeline, Reuters Partnership, and Freemium SaaS Economics Latka rapidly calculates the company's free-to-paid ratios and approximate monthly recurring revenue from Byron's percentages. Darlison educates Latka on the history of trading labs migrating from Wall Street floors into universities and high schools.8:01–10:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Venture Debt Perspective, and Churn Breakdown Latka drills into the churn dynamics, immediately deducing from the difference between 1.3% logo churn and 4% gross revenue churn that high-ACV trading desk customers are leaving. Darlison confirms this deduction and shares his preference for non-dilutive debt financing.10:21–13:45 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Fast Activation, and Technical Infrastructure Latka challenges Darlison's payback period math and questions why users cannot simply use AirPlay instead of purchasing Rise Vision hardware players. Darlison explains that commercial 24/7 reliability requires dedicated, hardwired Chrome devices.0:00–2:02 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promotion for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital This segment consists of an introductory monologue, book promotion, summary of the guest's business metrics, and a canned podcast intro.2:03–4:13 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Rise Vision Value Proposition and Transition to SaaS Model Darlison politely corrects Latka on the company name being Rise Vision rather than Rise Holdings. Latka then asks exploratory questions about the product and shift from hardware installations to SaaS.4:13–8:00 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Founding Timeline, Reuters Partnership, and Freemium SaaS Economics Latka rapidly calculates the company's free-to-paid ratios and approximate monthly recurring revenue from Byron's percentages. Darlison educates Latka on the history of trading labs migrating from Wall Street floors into universities and high schools.8:01–10:21 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Venture Debt Perspective, and Churn Breakdown Latka drills into the churn dynamics, immediately deducing from the difference between 1.3% logo churn and 4% gross revenue churn that high-ACV trading desk customers are leaving. Darlison confirms this deduction and shares his preference for non-dilutive debt financing.10:21–13:45 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Fast Activation, and Technical Infrastructure Latka challenges Darlison's payback period math and questions why users cannot simply use AirPlay instead of purchasing Rise Vision hardware players. Darlison explains that commercial 24/7 reliability requires dedicated, hardwired Chrome devices.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 87.8% · guest 12.2%0:00 · Nathan 87.8% · guest 12.2%3:00 · Nathan 35.7% · guest 64.3%3:00 · Nathan 35.7% · guest 64.3%6:00 · Nathan 37.1% · guest 62.9%6:00 · Nathan 37.1% · guest 62.9%9:00 · Nathan 46.7% · guest 53.3%9:00 · Nathan 46.7% · guest 53.3%12:00 · Nathan 48.4% · guest 51.6%12:00 · Nathan 48.4% · guest 51.6%15:00 · Nathan 96.7% · guest 3.3%15:00 · Nathan 96.7% · guest 3.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:03 Byron dismisses the AirPlay consumer alternative

When Latka pushes on why customers wouldn't simply mirror their screens via AirPlay, Darlison firmly pushes back, noting that consumer streaming lacks the 24/7 reliability required for commercial digital signage.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:26 Nathan challenges the six-month payback math

Latka calculates a 12-month payback period based on a $600 CAC and $50 ARPU, and directly challenges Darlison to explain how his internal metrics show under six months.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:30 Byron explains the transition of trading labs to schools

Darlison educates Latka on how trading desks decentralized and universities adopted mini trading floors to recruit business students, creating a lucrative education niche.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:40 Nathan diagnoses high-tier customer churn instantly

Latka analyzes the spread between 1.3% monthly logo churn and 4% monthly revenue churn to correctly diagnose that Rise Vision is losing its highest-paying legacy trading accounts.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Promotion for How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 0000 This segment consists of an introductory monologue, book promotion, summary of the guest's business metrics, and a canned podcast intro.
Rise Vision Value Proposition and Transition to SaaS Model 3311 Darlison politely corrects Latka on the company name being Rise Vision rather than Rise Holdings. Latka then asks exploratory questions about the product and shift from hardware installations to SaaS.
Founding Timeline, Reuters Partnership, and Freemium SaaS Economics 6312 Latka rapidly calculates the company's free-to-paid ratios and approximate monthly recurring revenue from Byron's percentages. Darlison educates Latka on the history of trading labs migrating from Wall Street floors into universities and high schools.
Bootstrapping Strategy, Venture Debt Perspective, and Churn Breakdown 7213 Latka drills into the churn dynamics, immediately deducing from the difference between 1.3% logo churn and 4% gross revenue churn that high-ACV trading desk customers are leaving. Darlison confirms this deduction and shares his preference for non-dilutive debt financing.
Customer Acquisition Economics, Fast Activation, and Technical Infrastructure 6424 Latka challenges Darlison's payback period math and questions why users cannot simply use AirPlay instead of purchasing Rise Vision hardware players. Darlison explains that commercial 24/7 reliability requires dedicated, hardwired Chrome devices.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Darlison: SaaS accounts for about 65% of Rise Vision's gross revenue
“It was a one-time service, but over the last about five years, we've been really focused on our SaaS offering, and now it's about 65% of our gross revenue.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 4:02
Assertion Contradicted
Darlison: Rise Vision launched the first digital signage SaaS product
“And we were in the, our industry, we were the first to offer a SaaS product in 2000 10 or earlier, I believe.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 4:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Darlison: Rise Vision has roughly 6,000 paying customers
“So we've got just a paying customer, about 6000 customers.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 6:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Rise Vision generates $350,000 in monthly revenue
“Yeah, I think it's closer to three 50.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 7:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Darlison: Rise Vision moving annual average growth is around 25%
“We track our moving annual average growth, so it's on a, on that basis, it's 25%, 24 point something.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 7:45
Disclosure
Darlison: Rise Vision is bootstrapped without venture capital
“I don't know, we're just bootstrapped.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 8:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Darlison: Rise Vision experiences 1.33% monthly logo churn and 4% gross churn
“So our gross churn or, well, our logo churn is about 1.33% monthly and gross though is about four, four and a half percent monthly.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 9:27
Assertion Supported
Darlison: Financial trading floors are shutting down and decentralizing
“So the financial trading floors are starting to shut down and move to their decentralizing and there's less, less concentration of them.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 10:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Darlison: Rise Vision maintains a 3.18 LTV to CAC ratio
“Our ratio is 3.18 lifetime value to customer acquisition cost.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 10:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Darlison: Rise Vision customer lifetime value is around $1,900
“About 1900 dollars.”
Byron Darlison Aug 19, 2019 ▶ 11:05
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