Jun 7, 2021 · 1h 17m · how-i-built-this
Jovial Foods: Carla Bartolucci
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
This memorial episode chronicles the life of entrepreneur Carla Bartolucci, exploring how personal health crises, Italian culinary traditions, and an uncompromising ethical code guided her in building organic food pioneers Bionaturae and Jovial Foods.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 39.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.0 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 0.2 Guy pushing back 0.4
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:04:45 Carla rejects standard corporate marketing logic
Carla pushes back against Guy's premise that hosting 20-person retreats is an inefficient marketing method, insisting on staying true to herself rather than copying conventional business practices.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 42:51 Guy challenges Carla on working a decade without a contractGuy expresses sheer disbelief that Carla built a major brand for nearly ten years without any legal licensing agreement or contractual protection.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 54:51 Carla educates Guy on einkorn genetics and gluten chemistryCarla explains the precise biological differences between ancient unhybridized einkorn and modern wheat, including its weaker gluten and missing proteins.
Guy holds their own ▶ 33:00 Guy explains retail chargeback mechanicsGuy demonstrates clear industry knowledge by breaking down how supermarket discount promotions are charged directly back to food manufacturers.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Carla's Promise of Business Integrity | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Guy Raz sets up the episode with an introductory monologue and tribute following Carla Bartolucci's sudden passing, establishing the foundational backstory of Jovial Foods. | |
| Italian Heritage and Culinary Roots in Connecticut | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Carla shares stories of growing up in Connecticut with Italian culinary roots and a competitive home environment. Guy asks gentle biographical questions to frame her background. | |
| Father's Illness and a Life-Changing Trip to Italy | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Carla recounts her father's cancer diagnosis and a transformative final trip to Italy that shaped her worldview. Guy listens empathetically with brief clarifying questions. | |
| College Abroad and Meeting Future Husband Rodolfo | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Carla discusses college, studying in Italy, and meeting her future husband and co-founder Rodolfo. The dynamic is conversational and warmly supportive. | |
| Returning to America and the Miami Beach Venture | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Carla describes their early attempt to launch a piadina stand in Miami Beach and its quick collapse due to permitting and fire ants. Guy guides the narrative chronologically. | |
| The Mystic Pasta Shop and Returning to Italy | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Carla details opening and quickly selling a fresh pasta shop in Mystic, Connecticut, realizing retail was not for her. Guy provides light cultural context. | |
| Family Crises and the Bread & Circus Inspiration | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Family health emergencies force a return to the US, leading Carla to discover Bread & Circus and identify natural Italian foods as a market opportunity. | |
| Launching Bionaturae: Sourcing and First Import Container | 2 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Carla describes borrowing her brother's life savings and mortgaging her parents' house to import the first Bionaturae container. Guy questions the steep financial risk. | |
| Food Co-op Expansion and the Negative P&L Prayer | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Carla explains early distribution hurdles, winning a Sofi award, and her emotional late-night prayer after seeing a negative P&L. Guy explores early revenue numbers. | |
| Scaling Bionaturae and the Spectrum Organics Partnership | 5 | 2 | 0 | 1 | Guy demonstrates industry knowledge by explaining bronze dies and retail grocery chargebacks while Carla recounts partnering with Spectrum Organics. | |
| Manufacturer Fallout and the Costly Brand Dispute | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Guy expresses astonishment that Carla operated a multimillion-dollar brand for a decade without a formal contract. Carla admits the naive mistake and explains the subsequent legal battle. | |
| Founding Jovial and Diagnosing Julia's Gluten Sensitivity | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Carla details the decision to launch Jovial and diagnosing her daughter Julia's severe non-celiac gluten sensitivity in Italy, educating Guy on Italian medical attitudes toward gluten. | |
| Rediscovering Einkorn: Research, Sourdough, and Recovery | 3 | 5 | 0 | 0 | Carla educates Guy extensively on einkorn's prehistoric genetics, absence of modern glutinin proteins, and how she cracked wet sourdough baking. Guy follows along attentively. | |
| Cultivating Ancient Crops and Manufacturing Jovial Pasta | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Carla details partnering with an Italian wheat farmer and engineering allergen-free brown rice pasta extruded through bronze dies. Guy highlights the tiny crop yields. | |
| Whole Foods Setback and Tuscan Cooking Retreats | 3 | 3 | 2 | 3 | Guy questions the efficiency of hosting intensive Tuscan culinary retreats to market products. Carla firmly defends the retreats as vital for grassroots connection and staying authentic. | |
| America's Test Kitchen Triumph and Cassava Innovation | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Carla explains how recognition from America's Test Kitchen propelled brown rice pasta sales and led to developing pure cassava grain-free pasta. | |
| Sustainable Growth, Independence, and Family Partnership | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Guy asks about private equity and rapid scaling. Carla explains her strict philosophy of independent ownership, controlled growth, and European employee benefits. | |
| Reflections on Adversity, Hard Work, and Intuition | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Guy asks Carla to reflect on the balance of luck versus hard work, and Carla emphasizes trusting her intuition before Guy concludes with an in memoriam tribute. |
Statements from this episode (23)
Bartolucci: In Italy, getting ahead without family wealth is almost impossible
“Because in Italy, you know, people don't really make a lot of money, and if your parents don't have something, it's almost impossible to get ahead”
Bartolucci: Sold Mystic Food Business for About $25,000 After One Year
“So after a year, we decided to put the business up for sale. We just wanted to move back to Italy. My husband always wanted to own a farm or something, and we sold the business for about, I think it was like, 25,000 dollars.”
Bartolucci: American food must move toward natural ingredients without additives
“America needs to be natural. It doesn't have to be, you know, hippie natural, but we can't keep eating all this, these additives.”
Bartolucci: First Bionaturae order was a $20,000 20-foot container
“Our first order, I believe it was about 20,000 dollars. It was a 20 foot container.”
Bartolucci took a $65,000 mortgage on parents' house for startup capital
“And we took 65,000 dollar mortgage on my parents' house.”
Bionaturae hit $500,000 in first-year sales near break-even
“I think we managed to sell about 500,000 dollars the first year. And at the end of the year, I was really behind in the QuickBooks and putting things into the computers, but it was the end of the year, so I had put all the bills and all the expenses, and I ran…”
Bionaturae became the top-selling organic pasta in the US
“And so, it took, I'm not sure how many years, but BioNature became the number one organic selling pasta in the United States.”
Bionaturae reached about $15 million in annual sales around 2008
“I mean, we were about maybe fifteen million in sales and things were ok.”
Bartolucci: Reinvested all profits annually instead of taking money out
“You're just gonna have to keep reinvesting your profits every year, and that's what I did.”
Bypassing middlemen to source directly from Italian factories spiked profits
“So we went there and found new factories and suddenly realized that the pricing that we had was very unfair, and so when we went direct, we made a lot more money.”
Bartolucci: Italy mandates certified restaurant training for celiac disease
“Italy loves people with food, and they regard celiac disease as a serious disease. So, you know, people are trained in restaurants, certified. They just have a complete respect.”
Bartolucci: Einkorn wheat lacks specific gluten proteins found in other wheats
“It has a very weak gluten. So there are certain types of glutinins or proteins. In all other kinds of wheat that einkorn does not have.”
Bartolucci: Einkorn is not gluten-free and cannot be eaten by celiacs
“It is not gluten-free. You can't eat it if you have celiac disease.”
Bartolucci rejected advisor pressure to make Jovial an einkorn-only brand
“A lot of advisors said, don't do anything but einkorn. You're the einkorn person. And I'm like, it's going to take years.
Guy Raz: To get people to know what it is.
Carla Bartolucci: I can't do that. I need to come up with, you know, something else.”
Whole Foods took Jovial einkorn pasta nationally, but it failed to sell
“They took it nationally, and it was actually not too hard to get the products in distribution, but unfortunately, they did not sell.”
Einkorn wheat's thin margins wouldn't justify a launch financially
“If you looked at the margins on einkorn, they never would have happened unless I was crazy.”
Jovial Foods reached profitability after three years of tight operations
“I think we were profitable after the third year. Not immensely profitable, and I think we had two years where we lost money, but we've run a tight ship.”
Bartolucci: Gluten-free brown rice pasta is Jovial's best-selling product
“Yes, and it totally does today, too. It's our best-selling product.”
Bartolucci: Jovial's cassava pasta grew faster than its brown rice pasta
“So grain-free was becoming popular, and I felt like I could do this well with no added ingredients, nothing, just cassava and water, and that product has taken off way faster than brown rice pasta.”
Jovial refuses outside funding, financing all expansion strictly through cash flow
“I don't spend money unless I have it, so if I want to do a project, I make sure that we make the money that we need to cover it, because you can choose what supermarkets or chains or whatever you present to. You don't have to say yes to everybody.”