Dec 4, 2023 · 1h 13m · how-i-built-this
Briogeo Hair Care: Nancy Twine (2020)
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of How I Built This, host Guy Raz interviews Nancy Twine, tracing her path from Goldman Sachs trader to pioneering beauty founder as she created Briogeo, an inclusive clean hair care powerhouse that grew from kitchen-inspired formulations into a multimillion-dollar global brand.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 34.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 2.5 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 0.1 Guy pushing back 0.1
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 1:11:00 Twine rejects the luck premise
When Raz asks if her trajectory was luck or hard work, Twine firmly dismisses the role of luck, pointing out that repeated success requires systematic effort and self-belief.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 1:10:39 Raz presses on luck vs skillRaz challenges Twine with his standard closing philosophical dilemma, querying whether her breakthrough was fortune or personal competence.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 26:42 Twine breaks down natural formulation and synthetic siliconesTwine provides a detailed chemical breakdown of cosmetic silicones versus natural botanical oils, correcting common assumptions about unregulated 'natural' marketing terms.
Guy holds their own ▶ 1:05:26 Raz asks about botanical shelf stabilityRaz demonstrates industry knowledge about cosmetic chemistry challenges by probing how purely natural ingredients avoid rapid biological degradation on retail shelves.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Framing Nancy Twine's Entrepreneurial Odyssey | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Host monologue introducing the episode's narrative arc and Nancy Twine's background. No interactive dialogue takes place. | |
| Roots of Ingenuity: Childhood and Family Influences | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz guides the discussion toward Twine's childhood influences in West Virginia and her mother's medical practice. Twine explains how her grandmother and mother crafted custom salves and natural products. | |
| Finding Direction: From College Acapella to Finance | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Twine describes her college days at UVA, realizing pop singing wasn't viable, and channeling her creative crafting into finance. Raz asks straightforward chronological questions. | |
| The Fast-Paced Grind at Goldman Sachs | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz inquires about the intense culture and surviving the 2008 layoffs at Goldman Sachs. Twine details making herself indispensable by taking on grueling hours. | |
| Grief and Awakening: The Loss of Nancy's Mother | 2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz gently walks through the tragic sudden loss of Twine's mother. Twine explains how finding her mother's unfinished skincare formulas sparked her desire to create natural hair care. | |
| The Catalyst: Seeking Independence and a New Purpose | 1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Twine shares how being rejected by her entrepreneurial brother pushed her to seek her own distinct business path. The segment concludes with commercial sponsor reads. | |
| Discovering the Clean Hair Care Market Void | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks about the technical meaning of 'natural' in personal care. Twine educates the audience on the difference between synthetic silicones and nutrient-rich natural oils. | |
| Mapping the Business Plan and Contract Manufacturing | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Twine explains discovering contract manufacturing through a networking contact after realizing she couldn't safely formulate scalable products at home alone. | |
| Leading a Double Life and Finding a Formulation Partner | 3 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Twine describes balancing a demanding Wall Street career with finding a chemist willing to formulate sulfate- and silicone-free products. Raz inquires about industry secrecy and lab communication. | |
| Refining the Product Strategy to Four Core SKUs | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks what a hair mask actually does. Twine explains narrowing a 15-product idea down to 4 focused SKUs and treating the rigorous work as therapy for grief. | |
| Sponsor: Sonos and MasterClass Commercial Advertisements | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Commercial break featuring promotional advertisements for Sonos and MasterClass. No interview content occurs. | |
| Pitching on Paper and Naming Briogeo | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Twine details attending angel meetups with sketches on poster boards while surrounded by tech founders, and explains the Latin and Italian linguistic roots of 'Briogeo.' | |
| An Unlikely Believer: Securing Angel Investor Phil Palmetto | 2 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz and Twine discuss how angel investor Phil Palmetto took an interest in her pitch and decided to back the founder rather than the specific category. | |
| The Vegas Trade Show and Inclusive Brand Identity | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Twine recounts spending $15,000 to exhibit at Cosmoprof in Las Vegas, encountering secretive Sephora buyers, and intentionally displaying diverse imagery to combat stereotyping. | |
| Securing Urban Outfitters and Cultivating Press Connections | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Raz highlights the methodical step-by-step nature of Twine's execution. Twine describes securing early orders from Urban Outfitters and booking in-person editor meetings. | |
| Pursuing Sephora: From Coffee in San Francisco to the Big Break | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Twine narrates cold-emailing Sephora merchants, flying out to San Francisco for a coffee meeting, and eventually receiving an unexpected green light to test online. | |
| Leaving Wall Street and Launching with Ipsy Sampling | 3 | 3 | 0 | 0 | Twine describes resigning from Goldman Sachs and using subscription sample boxes (Ipsy) to drive awareness and conversions on Sephora.com before expanding into brick-and-mortar stores. | |
| Chemistry, Scaling Capital, and Private Equity Growth | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | Raz asks how clean formulations remain shelf-stable. Twine explains utilizing EcoCert-approved synthetic preservatives, following up with subsequent angel and private equity rounds. | |
| Thriving in 2020 and Navigating Entrepreneurial Leadership | 3 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Raz addresses the 2020 social justice climate and the expectations placed on Black founders. Twine articulates that fixing racial injustice is not solely the responsibility of Black individuals. | |
| Mindset, Resilience, and Honoring Her Mother's Spirit | 3 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Raz asks the signature 'luck vs. skill' question. Twine rejects the luck framing, attributing her success to disciplined execution, resilience, and a foundational belief instilled by her mother. |
Statements from this episode (26)
Twine: Aspiring to succeed depends heavily on seeing relatable role models
“Because so much of wanting to become better or becoming successful comes from seeing Other people who look like you that have done it.”
Twine: Trying to be indispensable at Goldman Sachs led to exploitation
“My goal of making myself indispensable to protect my career during a tumultuous time probably put me in the position of being taken advantage of at times.”
Twine: Market for textured hair was not established when growing up
“The market for textured hair wasn't really established back then. So I found myself struggling with the products that were available, and either needing to supplement them with other ingredients, or just create my own products from scratch.”
Nancy Twine: Brother refused to let her join his venture
“While I was at Goldman, I was seeing a therapist, and prior to my mom's passing, I was even thinking about, you know, what life beyond Goldman looked like, and she encouraged me to see if I could join my brother in his entrepreneurial ventures, and he said, yo…”
Twine: 'Natural' lacks the regulatory standards governing 'organic' products
“The word natural is not regulated the way that organic is. So natural means different things to different people.”
Twine: Silicones merely fake hair shine while natural oils improve health
“Instead of, you know, pumping our products with silicones, which are synthetic polymers that give the illusion of shine on the hair We actually used real natural oils to do that because not only is it natural, but the benefits, the vitamins, the nutrients the …”
Nancy Twine used public accountability with friends to commit to entrepreneurship
“I told myself that I was gonna tell all of my friends about what it is I wanted to do, because I knew if I went and told everyone that I wanted to start a clean, natural hair care product line, that they would ask me about it every time we went out, and I didn…”
Nancy Twine reached VP at Goldman Sachs while bootstrapping Briogeo
“Because this would have been 2011, 20 12. I had just become a vice president, so I had gotten promoted, but I was also trying to allocate time to work on Briogeo, so.”
Manufacturers told Nancy Twine sulfate-free shampoo required silicones
“Sometimes manufacturers would say, oh, we just started developing shampoos without sulfates, but we need the silicone base in order for it to hydrate your hair. If you don't have the silicones, the clean surfactants are gonna dry out the hair. You can't have o…”
Twine: Briogeo launched with one universal shampoo and three conditioners
“So what I decided to do was to create one shampoo for all hair types. And then I had three conditioners that were texture specific. So with four products, I was able to hit a pretty diverse client base.”
Twine bootstrapped Briogeo with $25,000 before seeking outside capital
“So by that point, the most money I spent was on the business plan, which was about 5000. Some of the initial concepts for the packaging, which was, you know, north of 10 K. And then you factor in everything else. I was probably close to 25 K.”
Twine: Paid under $500 to a consultant to name Briogeo
“A friend of mine ended up putting me in touch with a guy who was a consultant, and for, you know, less than 500 bucks, he picked my brain on what I wanted this brand to be and gave me a ton of options, and Briogeo stood out.”
Twine spent roughly $15,000 to debut Briogeo at Cosmoprof Las Vegas
“Cost about 10,000 dollars for that weekend.
[3004] Guy Raz: And then that was just for the space.
[3005] Guy Raz: You had to like...
[3007] Guy Raz: Bring your stuff with you and like a signage and, right?
[3010] Nancy Twine: Yeah.
[3011] Nancy Twine: There wa…”
Briogeo left its first trade show with zero purchase orders
“I left with no orders, but I did leave with interest from Urban Outfitters.”
Twine used diverse imagery at Cosmoprof to avoid ethnic aisle pigeonholing
“You know, I figured that people would, which is why when I designed my booth, I was very intentional about having hair model imagery at my booth that really displayed the diversity of our intended consumer. So I think when people saw the breadth of ethnicities…”
Twine: Urban Outfitters Bought Briogeo's Entire First Inventory Run
“They pretty much bought all of the stock that I had, so that, those few hundred units.”
Twine: Briogeo Raised $100,000 from First Angel Investor
“So he gave me the first time about a 100,000 dollars.”
Twine: Desk-Side Editor Meetings Won Briogeo Immediate Press Coverage
“And so I was able to create relationships with editors at a dozen of publications, and I started getting press out of the gate.”
Sephora agreed to test Briogeo in February 2014 after category expansion shift
“And then in February of 2014, I received an email that changed my life. I had sent the merchant buyer January's press summary, and a couple of weeks later, she responded and said, Nancy, it's so great to hear from you. The stars must have been aligned because …”
Twine: Sephora promised 25 retail stores if Briogeo met online targets
“If I hit my targets, the next step would be to launch Briogeo in 25 of the then 400 Sephora stores.”
Twine used 200,000 Ipsy samples to drive massive Sephora sales conversions
“Getting that product in the hands of about 200,000 people translated into incredible conversions at Sephora.”
Twine: Briogeo relies on EcoCert-approved synthetics to guarantee product shelf life
“One of the things I'm very transparent about is that Briogeo products are not 100% natural, and where we cannot find a effective, clean substitute, we will opt with a synthetic version, so long as we really do our diligence to make sure that it's a safe synthe…”
Nancy Twine: Angel Backer Phil Loaned Briogeo $150K to Scale Inventory
“So I reached out to Phil, put together a little deck of how I would use the funds to basically scale the growth of the business, which he was incentivized to do given his equity position. He felt like it was a good business case. I had, you know, POs to point …”
Twine: Briogeo approached $40 million in gross sales during 2020
“So we will, you know, finish this year close to forty million in gross sales”