LFP

“At this point in China, you've got about a fifty-fifty blend of LFP cars, which tend to be the smaller cars and tend to be the plug-in hybrid cars. Versus ternary-based cars, which tend to be the larger or higher-end cars.”

“I think that's a, it's a, it's going to be a huge part of the market, but it can't be the only thing we do because if it's the only thing we do, we may replace the, you know, we may replace half of the ground fleet with EVs, but not a hundred percent.”

“And we are so Over capacity in the world on, on battery production today of LFP, which is part of the reason why the costs are so low”

“The operational costs account for somewhere around, kind of, 20% of the total cost of a cell. You've then got roughly 10%, which is, is related to the, kind of, capex, so equipment and plant capex, and then the rest of what you're looking at, kind of, 70% or s…”

“Robin Zhang, the chairman and CEO of CATL, announced basically last November that he expects Sodium Mines to take up to half of LFP's market share.”

“So, so current prices for LFP are basically at, I think it was reported to be about 56 dollars per kilowatt hour in the middle of last year. I think that number is down to maybe forty-something, sub-fifty now.”

“An anode-free sodium ion cell is one of the most competitive technologies out prices out there, because you don't have a negative electrode material that, that adds to cost, as well as the ability to really increase energy density. Those numbers can get to pot…”

“It's not about scale. It's not about just taking the chemistries and sodium mine today and then scaling the hell out of it... What drives the cost at the end is the materials intensity... Just focusing on scale won't get us there.”

“They are safer and cheaper and so they're widely adopted for basically standard range vehicles or almost a hundred percent of new grid scale kind of battery energy storage installations today.”

“LFP will, I think, remain dominant in that timeframe, just because you're going to see the cost curves continue to drive down.”

“I mean, the supply chains for LFPs have been largely within China. You're seeing that now spread more broadly. So Indonesia, Morocco are all areas now where you're seeing a lot more investment going into it.”

“But you will start to see more eight-hour, twelve-hour type applications emerging. And I think as that happens, you'll see other technologies kick into gear that will enable that better than LFP.”

“There's a decent likelihood we'll continue to see pricing go down. You know, I've heard some claims that you could see it go down as far as, you know, from 50 dollars down to even 25 dollars over the course of the next couple of years. I think it's realistic t…”

“LFP's been around now, For 20 odd years, it's been commercialized. They've come down that cost curve over time, and so there's not a whole lot of improvements that you can make with LFP. You've got to jump to a new chemistry.”

“So we see a future over the next five years where you're going to have these three chemistries.”

“LMR is, is good for some energy storage applications that are cycling periodically, that are cycling 30 times a year, 50 times a year, something like that. LMR would be great for that, because you'd have a smaller footprint that would be required for it compar…”

“So that, that's the advantage, is that you get something in between there, in terms of your driving range, but you're able to do it at the cost of the LFP.”

“We're totally agnostic to chemistry type. So because of the power electronics that we've developed, we can really easily integrate low capacity, high capacity, high nickel, LFP new, old, low voltage, high voltage packs, whatever it is we're ready to plug it in…”

“Two years ago, LFP was twice as, almost twice as expensive as it is today”

“Depending on which LFP you're comparing to, the cells that we're working on are somewhere between 15 to 30 dollars per kilowatt hour more expensive than equivalent LFP on a cost per kilowatt hour basis.”

“I think we'll still be about a 10 dollar per kilowatt hour more expensive if you talk like 20, 28.”

“So if we wait for, Four or five years to get into this game, we're going to be in a similar place that we are today on LFP, but, ah, today at least, you're not facing such a huge, ah, economy of scale challenge.”

“From the quotes and what we're hearing from the suppliers, not just cells, but also materials, we see a really low-risk pathway to the crossover point on price with LFP coming somewhere between twenty-twenty-eight and twenty-thirty out of China.”

“CATL is been very vocal about their hybrid pack technology where they're using, I think it's a layered oxide based sodium ion, but they basically have some portion of a vehicle pack that is sodium for primarily for power and for cold weather performance, and t…”

“We got two cells, equivalent cells, same size on test in our lab right now. LFP is at about 26,026 hundred cycles, and it's at 80% state of health. NFPP is almost 3000 cycles same cell, and we're at 95 94.5 percent.”

“You know, on the technology side, the industry has been moving away from NMC chemistry, which was the type of battery chemistry, lithium ion battery chemistry used at Moss Landing, towards LFP chemistry, which has a lower fire risk of thermal runaway.”