The Ledger, every show

“Yeah, we know that there are some copyrighted works in our training data. That's not illegal. It's stock standard for the industry. It's what every AI company does.”

“They did every AI company a huge disservice because everybody thinks that just like empty text box is now the right interface, and it is for ChatGPT, and it is incorrect for basically everything else.”

“For music, It's very different from text, and I think people will very sloppily look at the world of OpenAI and Anthropic and the hyperscalers and say audio is just a couple years behind, which it is, but that scale is gonna solve all these things. But unlike …”

“The challenges are not they're still physics challenges. They're still like basic research challenges that have to happen here, and so it's not something where you can kind of just turn the crank and make companies out of it, and to my knowledge, all of the co…”

“On paper, I would say it just seems silly to throw a bunch of venture dollars at lawyers instead of sitting down and talking about how you could Work together. You know, like, deciding to sue first and then ask questions later seems to me to be inefficient, bu…”

“If this lawsuit goes to trial and we lose, it's obviously not good for us. The company, the company's not dead, but it's obviously not good for us. I don't think that's likely.”

“The vast, vast majority of artists that I speak to Behind closed doors admit that they use and love Suno.”

“It's increasingly taste is the only thing that matters in, in, in art, and skill is going to matter a lot less because you're going to be able to make a lot of stuff And the people who are going to be recognized are people who are able to pick from the vast qu…”

“At some point, I don't know if it's version four or version five, there will be a last model release that is released as a model, and everything else is just product releases.”

“I don't think you're gonna get your money back in a reasonable time.”

“At the end of the day people will use Suno because it's a better product, not because there's a bigger, better, bigger model under the hood.”

“The machine learning team at Suno will almost certainly not scale as quickly as the software team, or said differently, I think research is not something that you can solve with scale. You can just throw more bodies and you'll get, you know, comparatively more…”

“And by the way, there are plenty of incumbents in the industry who do work with us.”

“It's not really enjoyable to make music now. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of practice. You need to get really good at an instrument or really good at a piece of production software. I think the majority of people don't enjoy the majority of the time …”

“I think that they probably reverse the causality. Things break on TikTok, and then they become famous on Spotify, but that is a function of both algorithms and people pushing music, and not necessarily only a function of the quality of the music.”

“The vast majority of Gen AI video companies have asked us for an API so that they can have, you know, Suno music behind their AI videos, and the answer's always no.”

“I hope that, you know, in, in six months from now, or 12 months from now, we're not using the word prompt. There are just far more intuitive ways to interact with the music, and we shouldn't be guiding you we should be listening to you if that makes sense.”

“Well, if it took a really complicated prompt and 1600 iterations, that's a failure of my product, not a failure of the candidate.”

“So that's, you know, that, that's billed as very founder friendly and it's actually the opposite.”

“The model shouldn't know about music theory. You don't tell GPT, this is a noun and this is a verb. GPT figures it out. If I tell my model, there are only 12 tones. My model will only know how to output 12 tones. If I tell my model there's 50 different instrum…”

“We are trying to change how the entire globe interacts with music and to open new experiences for people. And so what that means is that this is a consumer product. This is not sprinkling AI into Ableton or Logic or Pro Tools. This isn't for the person already…”

“Everybody's doing kind of something that looks like SAS pricing, and it's kind of done very crudely, and we are certainly no exception to that. But I don't know if this is right in the long term, and it strikes me as probably just a vestige of, it is the same …”

“And I think these set of technologies have the ability to skew that much, much farther because the creation process is so enjoyable. But I actually think if we do this right in the future, these are not going to be the Terms that we use to describe what we're …”

“If we are correct that there are just modes of experience around music that people don't have access to, that we can get a billion people much more engaged with music than they are now, that just in terms of the number of dollars or the amount of time people a…”

“I think if you accomplish all those things and if you make music interactive and you make music engaging people will pay for it like they pay for video games.”

“Our competitive edge here has not been to innovate on the architecture, and has been to innovate on the, Audio representation.”

“I think it reduces the average value of any given piece of content, but I think it greatly increases the value of music to society or to any given person.”

“If you are interested in a different AI problem, in the problem of how do I align Models, not to objective truth, but to human taste. I think there's nowhere else to do it.”

“It's the biggest thing by far. Yeah. It's a few times payroll.”

“An embedded fixed pie mentality. There's a fixed pie of money out there and we are all just, you know, trying to divide it unfairly for ourselves. And if we were focused on growing that pie, I think like just everything gets easier.”

“Those people, I think, are lying if they tell you, like this is a good thing. You know, it's like, maybe it's a sign of a good thing, but it itself is not a good thing. If nothing else, it's gonna cost money and time.”

“What I can only describe as the equivalent of fan fiction, if she wants that, and that would be an immensely engaging activity, in my mind, way more valuable and way more engaging than like having an AMA with her, if you're a huge fan.”

“The thing that people don't realize is that right now we've made something where people enjoy making music so much they are paying to create the music. This has nothing to do with listening.”

“I think songs have gotten Shorter, yes, but also much more homogenous in melodies, harmonies song structures, and they, and music innovates very much sonically. Like, they're really interesting sounds, and they all fit into the same song structure, and this is…”

“We can actively build a bigger, better future of music with AI, or we can just wait, and someone else in another country, not bound by US laws, not with the same intentions will build a worse future of music with AI.”

“The first order effect here is that GPT means that every person in the world has, like, a median competent tutor or sidekick. This is obviously amazing for education, and if you can't recognize that fact, I'm not sure you have such good judgment.”

“We don't make it a secret that these are just transformers. This is somewhat our backgrounds doing text before, but also transformers scale nicely. A lot of work ends up being done for you by the open source text community, which is always really nice. We can …”

“I think in, in all branches of AI, we become slaves to our metrics, and you say, I did this accuracy on this benchmark, and this accuracy on this benchmark, and in the real world, sometimes it doesn't necessarily matter, and these benchmarks are extra terrible…”

“Music is done now, sometimes painfully, but only in service of the final product. And I think when you open this up to people sure you definitely care about the final product about what the song sounds like on the other end, but you also really cared about the…”

“Because music is so human and so much emotional connection involved in it, I don't really see people losing connection with their favorite artists at all. In fact, if you labor around music and you understand the process, you feel a much deeper connection with…”

“People are always surprised to learn that we don't only train on music.”

“We actually don't let you do that. And it's because if you're taking someone else's lyrics, you didn't own those. You don't have the publishing rights to those. You can't remake that song.”

“And I think this stuff is very viral, but I actually really don't think that this is how people want to interact with music in the future.”

“You know, I like to think we're not making music, we're making musicians.”

“Audio is really far behind the world of text.”

“Let's be honest, I will pay you less than OpenAI will pay you, and I need to find a reason to convince you to come join us.”

“Experimental physicists just get good at running high-quality experiments really quickly, and AI is an empirical discipline, and so whoever can run more high-quality experiments quickly will win.”

“And so I don't see us getting to one second anytime soon, but I think the crossover that you're talking about, we're still kind of far away from.”