Mikey Shulman

Co-Founder & CEO, Suno · 1 appearance on the record.

computed by AI from the episodes · how this works → · full disclaimer →

founderexecutivescientistengineer

Mikey Shulman is the Co-founder and CEO of Suno, an AI music generation platform. He previously served as the Head of Machine Learning at Kensho Technologies and has a background in physics.

53statements → 19claims → 5claims resolved → 60%fully supported → 3.77/5average certainty → 2.64/5average debate potential → 4.3/5argument clarity · the sources → 6said about them ↓

3 supported 2 partly supported 0 contradicted 2 not yet assessed 12 not checkable as stated how the 19 claims stand · each chip opens the sources

9 predictions · 10 assertions · 6 opinions · 17 insights · 11 disclosures · every statement was checked. The predictions and assertions are the 19 claims: statements the public record can support or contradict. 5 are resolved, 2 are not yet assessed, and 12 name no date, number or outcome precise enough to check. Everything else (opinions, insights, what ifs, disclosures) can never be settled by the record, so it carries no assessment.

The record, in short

What the tape says about how Mikey argues and how the claims held up. Everything they said, and everything said about them, is in the tabs below.

Their most notable supported claim

Assertion Supported
Shulman: Suno blocks users from generating music with real artist names
“You've noticed in our product, you can't make Ariana Grande songs. If you put her name in, we're going to wave our finger at you, and you're going to say, like, that's not what the future of music is. That's not original music. Suno is for original music. It's…”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 27:36 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings

Expressed certainty vs assessment result

none yet certainty 1
none yet certainty 2
none yet certainty 3
75% certainty 4
100% certainty 5

weighted support: a fully supported claim counts one, a partly supported claim counts half. Each filled bar is clickable and opens exactly those claims; "none yet" means nothing said at that certainty level has resolved yet

Argument clarity: do they answer the question? how? →

4.3 / 5 directness 4.6 · coherence 4.6 · precision 3.9 · compression 3.8

redirected or did not address 2 of 39 assessed questions (5%). Watch them ▸

This is a score against a rubric. It is not a rank. Every host question → answer exchange is scored with names hidden on directness, coherence, precision and compression, 1–5 each, on meaning alone: disfluencies are ignored, and only raw unedited episodes count. This is the score that measures thought. Every scored exchange, scores shown → · The rubric and its checks →

How they sound: speaking style how? →

288 words/min while actually speaking · 33.3 um and uh per 1k words · 22 false starts per 1k · 32.7% of pauses land inside a clause

Measured by listening to the audio itself: 9,546 words across 1 episode of raw-level tape, transcribed verbatim with every um and uh kept, each one attributed only where the alignment onto our timed stream is unambiguous. These are measurements of speaking style. We do not rank them: across this corpus, fluency and argument quality are nearly uncorrelated (ρ≈0.2), and smooth talking does not signal clear thinking. How it's measured →

Everything Mikey Shulman said on 20VC that made the record, most notable first. Filter by type, assessment or year in the ledger →

Disclosure
Shulman: Using copyrighted works in AI training data is industry standard
“Yeah, we know that there are some copyrighted works in our training data. That's not illegal. It's stock standard for the industry. It's what every AI company does.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 17:53 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: Empty text box UI is wrong for most AI products
“They did every AI company a huge disservice because everybody thinks that just like empty text box is now the right interface, and it is for ChatGPT, and it is incorrect for basically everything else.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 39:11 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: Scaling laws will not solve AI music generation
“For music, It's very different from text, and I think people will very sloppily look at the world of OpenAI and Anthropic and the hyperscalers and say audio is just a couple years behind, which it is, but that scale is gonna solve all these things. But unlike …”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 2:21 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Assertion Partly supported
Shulman: Quantum computing startups face fundamental physics challenges, not engineering ones
“The challenges are not they're still physics challenges. They're still like basic research challenges that have to happen here, and so it's not something where you can kind of just turn the crank and make companies out of it, and to my knowledge, all of the co…”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 7:08 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Opinion
Shulman: Music incumbents suing AI startups before negotiating is inefficient
“On paper, I would say it just seems silly to throw a bunch of venture dollars at lawyers instead of sitting down and talking about how you could Work together. You know, like, deciding to sue first and then ask questions later seems to me to be inefficient, bu…”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 21:14 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Open · timeframe Jan 2028
Shulman: Suno will survive even if it loses copyright lawsuit
“If this lawsuit goes to trial and we lose, it's obviously not good for us. The company, the company's not dead, but it's obviously not good for us. I don't think that's likely.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 22:08 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shulman: Most artists privately admit to using and loving Suno
“The vast, vast majority of artists that I speak to Behind closed doors admit that they use and love Suno.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 26:33 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Mikey Shulman: Human taste will outweigh technical skill in future art
“It's increasingly taste is the only thing that matters in, in, in art, and skill is going to matter a lot less because you're going to be able to make a lot of stuff And the people who are going to be recognized are people who are able to pick from the vast qu…”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 51:53 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Shulman: AI companies will soon stop releasing standalone raw models
“At some point, I don't know if it's version four or version five, there will be a last model release that is released as a model, and everything else is just product releases.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 4:39 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Open · timeframe Jan 2030
Shulman: VCs will not get timely returns on quantum computing investments
“I don't think you're gonna get your money back in a reasonable time.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 8:13 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Shulman: Users Choose Suno for Product Quality, Not Model Size
“At the end of the day people will use Suno because it's a better product, not because there's a bigger, better, bigger model under the hood.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 12:11 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: Scaling AI research headcount yields sublinear returns
“The machine learning team at Suno will almost certainly not scale as quickly as the software team, or said differently, I think research is not something that you can solve with scale. You can just throw more bodies and you'll get, you know, comparatively more…”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 16:49 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Disclosure
Shulman: Suno actively works with plenty of music industry incumbents
“And by the way, there are plenty of incumbents in the industry who do work with us.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 21:02 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Opinion
Shulman: Most people do not enjoy the time spent making music
“It's not really enjoyable to make music now. It takes a lot of time. It takes a lot of practice. You need to get really good at an instrument or really good at a piece of production software. I think the majority of people don't enjoy the majority of the time …”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 23:26 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: Hit songs succeed via algorithms and promotion, not quality alone
“I think that they probably reverse the causality. Things break on TikTok, and then they become famous on Spotify, but that is a function of both algorithms and people pushing music, and not necessarily only a function of the quality of the music.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 34:00 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Disclosure
Shulman: Suno refuses API requests from generative AI video companies
“The vast majority of Gen AI video companies have asked us for an API so that they can have, you know, Suno music behind their AI videos, and the answer's always no.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 35:58 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Shulman: The term 'prompt' will disappear within six to twelve months
“I hope that, you know, in, in six months from now, or 12 months from now, we're not using the word prompt. There are just far more intuitive ways to interact with the music, and we shouldn't be guiding you we should be listening to you if that makes sense.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 39:29 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: Requiring complex prompts is an AI product failure, not user failure
“Well, if it took a really complicated prompt and 1600 iterations, that's a failure of my product, not a failure of the candidate.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 40:10 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: VC promises of reserve capital are actually not founder-friendly
“So that's, you know, that, that's billed as very founder friendly and it's actually the opposite.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 42:20 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Shulman: Interactive music will drive consumer spending like video games
“I think if you accomplish all those things and if you make music interactive and you make music engaging people will pay for it like they pay for video games.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 3:43 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shulman: Suno's edge is audio representation, not model architecture
“Our competitive edge here has not been to innovate on the architecture, and has been to innovate on the, Audio representation.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 5:06 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Insight
Shulman: Infinite AI supply lowers individual track value but increases music's overall worth
“I think it reduces the average value of any given piece of content, but I think it greatly increases the value of music to society or to any given person.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 5:53 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Opinion
Shulman: Suno Is the Only Place Aligning AI to Human Taste
“If you are interested in a different AI problem, in the problem of how do I align Models, not to objective truth, but to human taste. I think there's nowhere else to do it.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 10:07 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings
Disclosure
Shulman: Suno's GPU compute spend is several times its entire payroll
“It's the biggest thing by far. Yeah. It's a few times payroll.”
Mikey Shulman Jan 10, 2025 ▶ 16:21 Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with Harry Stebbings

Show 24statements(29 left)

The other half of the tape: Mikey Shulman's own voice is left out of every number here. Other people bring the name up 6 times in 2 episodes on 20VC. every mention, with the transcript →

Who brings them up most David Frankel 4Mike Mignano 1Harry Stebbings 1

Every mention by year

tap a year for its mentions
0031622026episodesmentions
0122026episodes it came up in
001.51322026episodesmentions per episode

Appearances (1)

EpisodeDateSpeaking time
Mikey Shulman, CEO @Suno: The Future of Music, What is Gonna Happen? | E1244 · 20VC with H Jan 10, 2025 42m
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 1,200 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.