The Ledger, every show

“We'll see the cost of building internal applications and applications in general go to almost zero, right? Like, so there will be tons of those and Lots more internal applications than off-the-shelf SaaS products, right?”

“I think we'll see the next hundred million software developers emerge around tools that are Gentic, but I still think it will be a profession to use those tools to do stuff, to build stuff for other people.”

“But they definitely feel it very strongly as like the biggest threat to them to be reduced to that system of record and not the actual like workflow platform. And I think that's pretty likely what would happen, right?”

“I think it's a balance that will really start tipping, right? Like where today, if you're a company and you have a specific business need, hiring a development team to build, deploy, operate an internal application just for you to solve that business need, the…”

“And now my timeline is more like five years and 15 years before it's going to be like really relevant.”

“And then you could speculate, can the agents maintain it? But I think. I think that, that then we are definitely in a 15, 20 year horizon before, before they could be relied on for anything like that.”

“But if Figma doesn't manage to connect that to the full end to end chain of prototyping and building and so on, then this could be a pretty existential threat. To companies like that over time, or at least like a threat to their current revenue model”

“If I follow a link and I land on an e-commerce from like a large brand that's trying to really differentiate themselves and be something different, right? Like I definitely just, I wouldn't want just to have some box saying like, you come up with what you want…”

“When the cost of building an e-commerce that looks like any of the current brands today goes down to like, just Ask Bolt to do it for you. Ask Lovable to do it for you. And you have that. Those brands are going to have to come up with something much more engag…”

“And it'll actually be an advantage for like the agent builders to not be tied to a specific model and be able to like, just jump around between whichever model is best. And I think once that start is happening, we're going to have like that, that's going to me…”

“Anthropic definitely has really stood out in, in their ability to solve programming and coding style tasks in a way that I think is like I'm very bullish on Anthropic for that reason, because I think that's such a groundbreaking part of what makes LLMs multipl…”

“I would probably go for Anthropic. It's a really interesting thing from the outside where a lot of their motivation started around these like safety concerns and like, how do we allow the models to not take over the world and so on. And I think after sort of a…”

“I mean, I think WordPress is, is in a challenging position where they are kind of like in the end of their innovation cycle. And I don't think they're in a great position to respond to all of this disruption. So I think like it'll be seen more and more as a bi…”

“I think now we can see, now I can start seeing how you could build that, right? Like, which I couldn't really like, again, two years ago, it would just be too expensive for a normal company to build anything with like real free assets and stuff like that, righ…”

“Where the developer experience means that it's just, that's never going to happen, right? Like normal teams are never going to adopt it. But it's one of these interesting examples for me of the shift from developer experience to agent experience. It suddenly, …”

“Maybe if you had asked me two years ago about serverless databases, right? Like, I would tell you that, like, I don't really think, like, I've looked a lot at it, and I think it's like, kind of like, Scale to zero for a database just doesn't matter that much. …”

“In five years, if this goes as I think we have, like, another hundred million new developers that are primarily working, like, the deepest of them will go several layers down the stack and we'll know everything behind it, and the shallow stuff then will primar…”

“We talked to one agency that's really been a pioneer of adopting this model you talked about of building sites that used to have, like, 55 developers instead, where 35 of those were back-end developers. And now they have around 33 developers, and two of them a…”

“If I look at Google's products, like I now have all these Genesis buttons all over and I never use them. They just haven't managed to productize it in a way that feels super compelling.”

“Like I think what we're seeing now is definitely the cost of building custom workflows, custom UIs, custom applications is going to dive down dramatically. And typically that will mean that demand for doing that will Go up radically and people will start build…”

“Like otherwise, if it's just fully custom built Kubernetes cluster stuff, all of it, the viability of that whole approach goes away, right? Like the maintenance cost just overtakes everything.”

“When I look at tools like bold and lovable, the category itself has something where it seems obvious that there will be a lot of money spent there. Just because like, when you see some of the examples of what people can do with those tools that they just could…”

“I would probably sell Grok. I still think like it sits a little more in a middle space”

“As a founder, you should always raise at the best price you can, right? Like, and capitalize the company as much as you can, because like, you want to be able to weather harder periods.”

“We used to have this very clear distinction between the back-end developers and then front-end developers that worked with the web were barely really developers. They would mostly take some design file and then cut it up and hand it over to a back-end develope…”

“28% of all websites are still built with WordPress, and everybody kind of knows it's a bad idea, but it's even still slowly growing, and I think we're about to see a pretty massive sea change where the architecture of that will shift, and that I think will aff…”

“I just don't think anyone can have a great developer experience five years from now, if they don't have a great agent experience.”

“There's no doubt that the way people start projects in general are really already starting to shift a lot, both from traditional templates and bootstraps and front end frameworks on the one end, on the other end from like design prototypes and visual design on…”

“But the interesting thing is that the layer below of like Ruby and Rails developers and Java developers and .NET developers. It's probably still at least as large as this was before that. The new layer just got added on top.”

“It's a hard one, but I would probably say Microsoft. I think again, if you can only buy one, you probably want it to be a pretty safe one. You want it to be one that benefits from all of the disruption AI is going to bring to the field rather than like falls f…”

“And then at first we use that to essentially build exactly the same That we've built the last 10 years. So we use that to build more of the same kind of web experiences, websites, web apps that we've built in the last 10 years. It just lowers the barrier of en…”

“Now we're starting to see agents play a major role in building the web, writing a lot of the code, coming up with this, it's doing all of that, collaborating with humans, but multiplying this factor of what you can build.”

“If we can build the right agent experience around the web, that will make it possible again to build really wild and creative experiences, but still allow any person interacting with them that also have agents helping them to interact in whatever way they want…”

“All of our user interfaces so far have been truly transactional interfaces, right? Like I click a button, the computer does something transactional and deterministic. That constraint has basically gone away.”

“Latest, like there's been different ones of them, but by far the most impactful have been Bolt. News that sort of really exploded into the market at the end of last quarter, and we would say set a new standard for how far you can go with like a prompt based ag…”

“And by now at Netlify, we're seeing about 10,000 sites a day created from AI code generator.”

“They moved away from using hooks, for example, because they said like hooks is a great abstraction, but it hides the complexity. And we found that if we use relay in like single page component files, it becomes much easier for the LLM.”

“So I mean, I think I'm kind of proposing AX as a discipline in the similar way as DX or UX as a discipline, right? Like once it starts being an intentional focus of yours and you start really observing how the humans and the agent work together with your produ…”

“For the web, there are questions of, like, how can we simplify The way agents get, like interact with the web, where right now the state of the art is kind of like a headless browser and taking screenshots and having a multimodal LLM take action and that, righ…”

“Git has been such a massive trend that's been adopted by Developers universally, and it's become not just their version control system, but their main workflow engine and their main way of collaboration and communication, even in, in issues around Git and so o…”

“We've seen a lot of companies now start adopting similar flows, right? Like in the authentication space, in the database space and so on to make the tools available to agents without an explicit user's sign up and set up step first and delaying that step to af…”

“And probably the first one that's really easy to predict is just acceleration. We will have more code written faster, more assets, more content.”

“I wrote an article about that and have sort of centered a lot of Netlify's efforts around how do we build the best AX.”