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Jun 11, 2016 · 18m · top-founders

Giving Up on $1MM+ Consulting Business For $1B+ SaaS Idea, EP 277: Khalid Saleh

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Khalid Saleh · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Invesp co-founder Khalid Saleh to explore the economics of running an enterprise conversion consulting agency and the strategic decision to bootstrap an all-in-one SaaS platform using agency cash flows.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 53.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 2.4 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:002:26–7:13 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Invesp's Conversion Optimization Consulting Business Model Nathan presses for precise financial figures, contract durations, and past corporate salaries. Khalid openly provides his metrics, client retainer sizes, and the background on founding Invesp with his wife.7:13–10:13 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Transitioning from Agency Services to a SaaS Platform Nathan pushes back hard on why the SaaS product took two years to build and demands specific competitor names. Khalid defends their deliberate roadmap adjustment against venture-backed competitors like Optimizely.10:14–12:30 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Bootstrapping the SaaS Platform and Rejecting VC Funding Khalid educates Nathan on international venture capital terms across Russia, Germany, and Silicon Valley. Nathan probes the cap table structuring between the agency and the upcoming software spinout.12:32–15:24 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Founder Contact Channels and Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages Khalid gives his contact channels before Nathan transitions into extended mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.15:24–17:48 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Interview Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format, demonstrating knowledge of classic UI/UX literature when Khalid mentions 'Don't Make Me Think'.2:26–7:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Invesp's Conversion Optimization Consulting Business Model Nathan presses for precise financial figures, contract durations, and past corporate salaries. Khalid openly provides his metrics, client retainer sizes, and the background on founding Invesp with his wife.7:13–10:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Transitioning from Agency Services to a SaaS Platform Nathan pushes back hard on why the SaaS product took two years to build and demands specific competitor names. Khalid defends their deliberate roadmap adjustment against venture-backed competitors like Optimizely.10:14–12:30 · Guest teaching 5/10 Bootstrapping the SaaS Platform and Rejecting VC Funding Khalid educates Nathan on international venture capital terms across Russia, Germany, and Silicon Valley. Nathan probes the cap table structuring between the agency and the upcoming software spinout.12:32–15:24 · Guest teaching 0/10 Founder Contact Channels and Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages Khalid gives his contact channels before Nathan transitions into extended mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.15:24–17:48 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Interview Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format, demonstrating knowledge of classic UI/UX literature when Khalid mentions 'Don't Make Me Think'.2:26–7:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Invesp's Conversion Optimization Consulting Business Model Nathan presses for precise financial figures, contract durations, and past corporate salaries. Khalid openly provides his metrics, client retainer sizes, and the background on founding Invesp with his wife.7:13–10:13 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Transitioning from Agency Services to a SaaS Platform Nathan pushes back hard on why the SaaS product took two years to build and demands specific competitor names. Khalid defends their deliberate roadmap adjustment against venture-backed competitors like Optimizely.10:14–12:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Bootstrapping the SaaS Platform and Rejecting VC Funding Khalid educates Nathan on international venture capital terms across Russia, Germany, and Silicon Valley. Nathan probes the cap table structuring between the agency and the upcoming software spinout.12:32–15:24 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Founder Contact Channels and Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages Khalid gives his contact channels before Nathan transitions into extended mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.15:24–17:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Interview Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format, demonstrating knowledge of classic UI/UX literature when Khalid mentions 'Don't Make Me Think'.2:26–7:13 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Invesp's Conversion Optimization Consulting Business Model Nathan presses for precise financial figures, contract durations, and past corporate salaries. Khalid openly provides his metrics, client retainer sizes, and the background on founding Invesp with his wife.7:13–10:13 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Transitioning from Agency Services to a SaaS Platform Nathan pushes back hard on why the SaaS product took two years to build and demands specific competitor names. Khalid defends their deliberate roadmap adjustment against venture-backed competitors like Optimizely.10:14–12:30 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Bootstrapping the SaaS Platform and Rejecting VC Funding Khalid educates Nathan on international venture capital terms across Russia, Germany, and Silicon Valley. Nathan probes the cap table structuring between the agency and the upcoming software spinout.12:32–15:24 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Founder Contact Channels and Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages Khalid gives his contact channels before Nathan transitions into extended mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.15:24–17:48 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Interview Questions Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format, demonstrating knowledge of classic UI/UX literature when Khalid mentions 'Don't Make Me Think'.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 81.5% · guest 18.5%0:00 · Nathan 81.5% · guest 18.5%3:00 · Nathan 24.6% · guest 75.4%3:00 · Nathan 24.6% · guest 75.4%6:00 · Nathan 26.6% · guest 73.4%6:00 · Nathan 26.6% · guest 73.4%9:00 · Nathan 36.3% · guest 63.7%9:00 · Nathan 36.3% · guest 63.7%12:00 · Nathan 79.2% · guest 20.8%12:00 · Nathan 79.2% · guest 20.8%15:00 · Nathan 59.5% · guest 40.5%15:00 · Nathan 59.5% · guest 40.5%18:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%18:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:38 Defending SaaS strategy against funded giants

Khalid defends taking time to re-architect their product, explaining why small bootstrapped features cannot compete head-to-head with Optimizely and VWO without broader multi-feature platform utility.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:21 Pressing on two-year development timeline

Nathan directly challenges Khalid's timeline, demanding to know why the SaaS platform has taken two full years to launch and forcing him to name competitors.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:34 Global differences in early-stage VC valuations

Khalid informs Nathan about the massive equity discount foreign VCs in Russia and Germany demand compared to typical Silicon Valley seed rounds.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:57 Dismissing VC capital advantages

Nathan cuts through Khalid's hesitation regarding well-funded competitors by arguing that venture funding merely creates corporate distraction and ownership dilution.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Invesp's Conversion Optimization Consulting Business Model 4313 Nathan presses for precise financial figures, contract durations, and past corporate salaries. Khalid openly provides his metrics, client retainer sizes, and the background on founding Invesp with his wife.
Transitioning from Agency Services to a SaaS Platform 5326 Nathan pushes back hard on why the SaaS product took two years to build and demands specific competitor names. Khalid defends their deliberate roadmap adjustment against venture-backed competitors like Optimizely.
Bootstrapping the SaaS Platform and Rejecting VC Funding 5512 Khalid educates Nathan on international venture capital terms across Russia, Germany, and Silicon Valley. Nathan probes the cap table structuring between the agency and the upcoming software spinout.
Founder Contact Channels and Mid-Roll Sponsor Messages 1000 Khalid gives his contact channels before Nathan transitions into extended mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Interview Questions 4111 Nathan runs through his rapid-fire Famous Five format, demonstrating knowledge of classic UI/UX literature when Khalid mentions 'Don't Make Me Think'.

Statements from this episode (10)

Disclosure
Invesp charges a minimum $8,000 monthly retainer for optimization services
“I can't speak specifically, but let's say like one of our regular customers eBay, for example, I mean, the minimum we charge is around 8000 dollars and goes up from there based on the complexity of the project.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 3:36
Disclosure
Invesp consulting clients retain the agency for 15 to 24 months
“No, we're talking about, on average, they do anywhere between 15 to 24 months.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 4:06
Disclosure
Saleh: Invesp generated $15K to $20K in first-year revenue
“I think we did like about 15 or 20,000.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 4:32
Disclosure
Khalid Saleh earned close to $100K before founding Invesp
“So I was making close to a hundred K at that point.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 5:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Saleh's former consulting firm billed his time at $2,500 per day
“I think the billing rate, the company that was billing me, I was about 2500 dollars you know, on daily basis.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 6:09
Disclosure
Khalid Saleh's wife owns the majority equity stake in Invesp
“We're actually four partners in the company, but she owns the majority, so.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 7:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Saleh: Invesp reached $1M in revenue in 2011
“Let me say that in 2011, we hit a million dollar in revenue, and it's been growing steadily since then.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 8:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Invesp revenue dropped to $700K in 2014 after reaching $1M
“20 14 was actually was not a great year. I think we did close to 700.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 8:47
Disclosure
Saleh: Invesp is betting the company on an all-in-one SaaS platform
“So we're going to offer a lot more features, a lot more software products within the same platform, and that's what we're betting the company on.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 10:04
Disclosure
German investors offered $1.8M for 30% equity in Invesp
“German offer was actually about the same amount, actually probably a bit more, 1.8, and we're talking about the 30%.”
Khalid Saleh Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 11:11
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