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Jun 11, 2016 · 21m · top-founders

He Helped Invent NYT Paywall in 2005, Predicts Future of Content, EP 278: Peter Himler

Peter Himler · 11m spoken Nathan Latka · 8m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In episode 278 of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Flatiron Communications founder Peter Himler to discuss the historical evolution of digital paywalls at The New York Times, shifting trends in public relations and influencer marketing, and the operational economics of running a boutique virtual PR agency.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.6 Guest teaching 3.8 Guest disagreement 2.2 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:0020:001:35–4:19 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founding Flatiron Communications and Modern PR Evolution Latka opens by probing Himler's transition from large PR agencies to Flatiron Communications. Himler gently corrects the timeline to 2005 and educates the host on how modern PR shifted from pure earned media to owned and paid native advertising.4:20–8:38 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 The History and Evolution of the New York Times Paywall Latka demonstrates deep background preparation by quoting specific pricing ($7.95/month) and performance metrics (227,000 paying subscribers, $10M revenue) from a 2007 NYT article to challenge Himler's characterization of TimesSelect as an outright failure. Himler clarifies that despite revenue, it was shuttered due to audience pushback and lost ad impressions.8:38–12:36 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Evaluating Paywalls, Native Advertising, and Content Monetization Latka challenges Himler with a true-or-false premise about paywalls cannibalizing native ad revenue. Himler rejects the binary premise, explaining that high-value niche publications like The Information prove paywalls and sponsor monetization can coexist.12:37–16:31 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Rise of Influencer Marketing and Branded Content Deals Himler shares historical context on influencer marketing acquisitions like Niche, while Latka steers the conversation into Flatiron's business fundamentals, extracting specific contractor hourly rates ($100-$150/hr) and client retainers ($7.5k-$12.5k/mo).16:32–19:59 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Audience Giveaway Instructions and HostGator Sponsorship After an ad break, Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. The tone remains collaborative, with brief banter when Himler playfully dodges revealing his exact age.1:35–4:19 · Guest teaching 4/10 Founding Flatiron Communications and Modern PR Evolution Latka opens by probing Himler's transition from large PR agencies to Flatiron Communications. Himler gently corrects the timeline to 2005 and educates the host on how modern PR shifted from pure earned media to owned and paid native advertising.4:20–8:38 · Guest teaching 5/10 The History and Evolution of the New York Times Paywall Latka demonstrates deep background preparation by quoting specific pricing ($7.95/month) and performance metrics (227,000 paying subscribers, $10M revenue) from a 2007 NYT article to challenge Himler's characterization of TimesSelect as an outright failure. Himler clarifies that despite revenue, it was shuttered due to audience pushback and lost ad impressions.8:38–12:36 · Guest teaching 6/10 Evaluating Paywalls, Native Advertising, and Content Monetization Latka challenges Himler with a true-or-false premise about paywalls cannibalizing native ad revenue. Himler rejects the binary premise, explaining that high-value niche publications like The Information prove paywalls and sponsor monetization can coexist.12:37–16:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 The Rise of Influencer Marketing and Branded Content Deals Himler shares historical context on influencer marketing acquisitions like Niche, while Latka steers the conversation into Flatiron's business fundamentals, extracting specific contractor hourly rates ($100-$150/hr) and client retainers ($7.5k-$12.5k/mo).16:32–19:59 · Guest teaching 1/10 Audience Giveaway Instructions and HostGator Sponsorship After an ad break, Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. The tone remains collaborative, with brief banter when Himler playfully dodges revealing his exact age.1:35–4:19 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Founding Flatiron Communications and Modern PR Evolution Latka opens by probing Himler's transition from large PR agencies to Flatiron Communications. Himler gently corrects the timeline to 2005 and educates the host on how modern PR shifted from pure earned media to owned and paid native advertising.4:20–8:38 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The History and Evolution of the New York Times Paywall Latka demonstrates deep background preparation by quoting specific pricing ($7.95/month) and performance metrics (227,000 paying subscribers, $10M revenue) from a 2007 NYT article to challenge Himler's characterization of TimesSelect as an outright failure. Himler clarifies that despite revenue, it was shuttered due to audience pushback and lost ad impressions.8:38–12:36 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Evaluating Paywalls, Native Advertising, and Content Monetization Latka challenges Himler with a true-or-false premise about paywalls cannibalizing native ad revenue. Himler rejects the binary premise, explaining that high-value niche publications like The Information prove paywalls and sponsor monetization can coexist.12:37–16:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Rise of Influencer Marketing and Branded Content Deals Himler shares historical context on influencer marketing acquisitions like Niche, while Latka steers the conversation into Flatiron's business fundamentals, extracting specific contractor hourly rates ($100-$150/hr) and client retainers ($7.5k-$12.5k/mo).16:32–19:59 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Audience Giveaway Instructions and HostGator Sponsorship After an ad break, Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. The tone remains collaborative, with brief banter when Himler playfully dodges revealing his exact age.1:35–4:19 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Founding Flatiron Communications and Modern PR Evolution Latka opens by probing Himler's transition from large PR agencies to Flatiron Communications. Himler gently corrects the timeline to 2005 and educates the host on how modern PR shifted from pure earned media to owned and paid native advertising.4:20–8:38 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 The History and Evolution of the New York Times Paywall Latka demonstrates deep background preparation by quoting specific pricing ($7.95/month) and performance metrics (227,000 paying subscribers, $10M revenue) from a 2007 NYT article to challenge Himler's characterization of TimesSelect as an outright failure. Himler clarifies that despite revenue, it was shuttered due to audience pushback and lost ad impressions.8:38–12:36 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Evaluating Paywalls, Native Advertising, and Content Monetization Latka challenges Himler with a true-or-false premise about paywalls cannibalizing native ad revenue. Himler rejects the binary premise, explaining that high-value niche publications like The Information prove paywalls and sponsor monetization can coexist.12:37–16:31 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Rise of Influencer Marketing and Branded Content Deals Himler shares historical context on influencer marketing acquisitions like Niche, while Latka steers the conversation into Flatiron's business fundamentals, extracting specific contractor hourly rates ($100-$150/hr) and client retainers ($7.5k-$12.5k/mo).16:32–19:59 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Audience Giveaway Instructions and HostGator Sponsorship After an ad break, Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. The tone remains collaborative, with brief banter when Himler playfully dodges revealing his exact age.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 66.6% · guest 33.4%0:00 · Nathan 66.6% · guest 33.4%3:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%3:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%6:00 · Nathan 22.8% · guest 77.2%6:00 · Nathan 22.8% · guest 77.2%9:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%9:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%12:00 · Nathan 16.1% · guest 83.9%12:00 · Nathan 16.1% · guest 83.9%15:00 · Nathan 60% · guest 40%15:00 · Nathan 60% · guest 40%18:00 · Nathan 71% · guest 29%18:00 · Nathan 71% · guest 29%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 9:57 Himler rejects the cannibalization dichotomy

Himler explicitly pushes back against Latka's binary 'true or false' question, arguing that subscription paywalls and native advertising are not mutually exclusive.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:34 Latka challenges failure narrative with revenue figures

Latka refuses to accept Himler's assessment that TimesSelect was purely unsuccessful, citing exact subscriber numbers and ten million dollars in revenue from a 2007 article.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:26 Himler explains high-value niche audience monetization

Himler uses Jessica Lessin's The Information to teach Latka that niche audience quality allows publishers to charge high premiums without relying on mass-market traffic.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 7:24 Latka cites specific journalist and publish date

When Himler casts doubt on the TimesSelect statistics, Latka establishes authority by citing Richard Perez-Pena's September 18, 2007 New York Times piece by name.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Founding Flatiron Communications and Modern PR Evolution 4421 Latka opens by probing Himler's transition from large PR agencies to Flatiron Communications. Himler gently corrects the timeline to 2005 and educates the host on how modern PR shifted from pure earned media to owned and paid native advertising.
The History and Evolution of the New York Times Paywall 8536 Latka demonstrates deep background preparation by quoting specific pricing ($7.95/month) and performance metrics (227,000 paying subscribers, $10M revenue) from a 2007 NYT article to challenge Himler's characterization of TimesSelect as an outright failure. Himler clarifies that despite revenue, it was shuttered due to audience pushback and lost ad impressions.
Evaluating Paywalls, Native Advertising, and Content Monetization 5634 Latka challenges Himler with a true-or-false premise about paywalls cannibalizing native ad revenue. Himler rejects the binary premise, explaining that high-value niche publications like The Information prove paywalls and sponsor monetization can coexist.
The Rise of Influencer Marketing and Branded Content Deals 4312 Himler shares historical context on influencer marketing acquisitions like Niche, while Latka steers the conversation into Flatiron's business fundamentals, extracting specific contractor hourly rates ($100-$150/hr) and client retainers ($7.5k-$12.5k/mo).
Audience Giveaway Instructions and HostGator Sponsorship 2122 After an ad break, Latka runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. The tone remains collaborative, with brief banter when Himler playfully dodges revealing his exact age.

Statements from this episode (8)

Assertion Supported
Himler: Consulting on NYT's First Paywall Led to Founding Flatiron
“One of which was one of my clients at Burson Marcello was the New York times. And they were launching something very significant in their in their realm. It was their first paywall and they wanted to work with me and they wanted to work with me by myself. And …”
Peter Himler Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 1:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Himler: NYT's 2005 TimesSelect Paywall Failed Because Consumers Weren't Ready
“The first paywall that the Times introduced was called Times Select, and it was not successful. It came at a time when people were not ready to pay for content. It was about, no, no, it was later. Yeah, it was about 2005.”
Peter Himler Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 5:06
Assertion Partly supported
Latka: NYT's 2005 TimesSelect Paywall Generated $10M From 227,000 Subscribers
“Times select program that was launched in Oh five drew over 227,000 paying subscribers out of 707,000 total subscribers, which generated about ten million dollars in revenue for the times.”
Nathan Latka Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 6:36
Disclosure
Latka: The Top Podcast Reaches Over One Million Downloads
“The podcast is getting well over a million downloads now.”
Nathan Latka Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 11:27
Assertion Partly supported
Himler: Twitter Acquired Influencer Startup Niche for $20 Million
“He started a company called Niche out of New York, N-I-C-H-E dot C-O. And basically he matched Brands with those that have big influence, a lot of followers on Vine, on Twitter, on Instagram, and he built this business, and then Twitter bought his company, he'…”
Peter Himler Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 13:32
Disclosure
Himler: Flatiron Communications Operates as a Four-Person Virtual Agency
“I have four, I have a team of four, and I have a virtual agency, so I pay them on an hourly, and I pay very well, and I keep.”
Peter Himler Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 14:23
Disclosure
Himler: Flatiron Pays Its PR Contractors $100 to $150 Per Hour
“A hundred to a 150 an hour.”
Peter Himler Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 14:33
Disclosure
Himler: Flatiron Communications Charges $7,500 to $12,500 Monthly Retainers
“My retainers, unlike some of the bigger agencies, which 15, 20, 30,000 a month, you know, I go from 7500 to 1205 a month.”
Peter Himler Jun 11, 2016 ▶ 15:32
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