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Jul 3, 2018 · 17m · top-founders

1074 I left Wall Street trenches to do Email Business Intelligence

Michael Johnson · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews NotableList founder Michael Johnson about leaving Wall Street to build a bootstrapped competitive email intelligence SaaS. Johnson explains how his lean three-person team scaled to $150,000 in annual recurring revenue with a $7,500 single-tier annual model, zero paid marketing, and a defensible proprietary data moat.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.5 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:000:49–2:50 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Michael Johnson's Transition from Wall Street to Startups Nathan relates Michael's competitive email intelligence platform to common email service providers and his own workflow, prompting Michael to explain how sales teams use ESP data for prospecting.2:50–5:29 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Annual SaaS Subscription Model and Single-Tier Pricing Nathan deduces single-tier pricing from Michael's prompt answer and presses for the co-founder equity split, prompting Michael to deflect specifics while confirming he retained majority control.5:29–8:11 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Bootstrapped Revenue Growth and Customer Traction Milestones Nathan quickly computes the $150k ARR run rate and immediately challenges Michael on a supposed 13-year timeline gap, leading Michael to correct his 2004 slip to 2014.8:13–12:21 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 HostGator Website Builder and Web Hosting Sponsorship Promotion Following the sponsorship break, Michael explains how Notable List analyzed Mandrill's transactional email fallout to SparkPost as an inbound marketing case study, with Nathan inquiring about CAC metrics.12:22–15:05 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Startup Valuation Methodology and Competitive Email Intelligence Moat Nathan probes Michael on early-stage valuation frameworks beyond standard revenue multiples and interjects with competitors like BuiltWith and Siftery to test Michael's market moat.15:05–16:41 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Michael Johnson Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, concluding with Michael's cynical life advice and Nathan's rapid operational recap.0:49–2:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Michael Johnson's Transition from Wall Street to Startups Nathan relates Michael's competitive email intelligence platform to common email service providers and his own workflow, prompting Michael to explain how sales teams use ESP data for prospecting.2:50–5:29 · Guest teaching 1/10 Annual SaaS Subscription Model and Single-Tier Pricing Nathan deduces single-tier pricing from Michael's prompt answer and presses for the co-founder equity split, prompting Michael to deflect specifics while confirming he retained majority control.5:29–8:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapped Revenue Growth and Customer Traction Milestones Nathan quickly computes the $150k ARR run rate and immediately challenges Michael on a supposed 13-year timeline gap, leading Michael to correct his 2004 slip to 2014.8:13–12:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 HostGator Website Builder and Web Hosting Sponsorship Promotion Following the sponsorship break, Michael explains how Notable List analyzed Mandrill's transactional email fallout to SparkPost as an inbound marketing case study, with Nathan inquiring about CAC metrics.12:22–15:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Startup Valuation Methodology and Competitive Email Intelligence Moat Nathan probes Michael on early-stage valuation frameworks beyond standard revenue multiples and interjects with competitors like BuiltWith and Siftery to test Michael's market moat.15:05–16:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Michael Johnson Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, concluding with Michael's cynical life advice and Nathan's rapid operational recap.0:49–2:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Michael Johnson's Transition from Wall Street to Startups Nathan relates Michael's competitive email intelligence platform to common email service providers and his own workflow, prompting Michael to explain how sales teams use ESP data for prospecting.2:50–5:29 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Annual SaaS Subscription Model and Single-Tier Pricing Nathan deduces single-tier pricing from Michael's prompt answer and presses for the co-founder equity split, prompting Michael to deflect specifics while confirming he retained majority control.5:29–8:11 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapped Revenue Growth and Customer Traction Milestones Nathan quickly computes the $150k ARR run rate and immediately challenges Michael on a supposed 13-year timeline gap, leading Michael to correct his 2004 slip to 2014.8:13–12:21 · Guest disagreement 1/10 HostGator Website Builder and Web Hosting Sponsorship Promotion Following the sponsorship break, Michael explains how Notable List analyzed Mandrill's transactional email fallout to SparkPost as an inbound marketing case study, with Nathan inquiring about CAC metrics.12:22–15:05 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Startup Valuation Methodology and Competitive Email Intelligence Moat Nathan probes Michael on early-stage valuation frameworks beyond standard revenue multiples and interjects with competitors like BuiltWith and Siftery to test Michael's market moat.15:05–16:41 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Michael Johnson Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, concluding with Michael's cynical life advice and Nathan's rapid operational recap.0:49–2:50 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Michael Johnson's Transition from Wall Street to Startups Nathan relates Michael's competitive email intelligence platform to common email service providers and his own workflow, prompting Michael to explain how sales teams use ESP data for prospecting.2:50–5:29 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Annual SaaS Subscription Model and Single-Tier Pricing Nathan deduces single-tier pricing from Michael's prompt answer and presses for the co-founder equity split, prompting Michael to deflect specifics while confirming he retained majority control.5:29–8:11 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Bootstrapped Revenue Growth and Customer Traction Milestones Nathan quickly computes the $150k ARR run rate and immediately challenges Michael on a supposed 13-year timeline gap, leading Michael to correct his 2004 slip to 2014.8:13–12:21 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 HostGator Website Builder and Web Hosting Sponsorship Promotion Following the sponsorship break, Michael explains how Notable List analyzed Mandrill's transactional email fallout to SparkPost as an inbound marketing case study, with Nathan inquiring about CAC metrics.12:22–15:05 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Startup Valuation Methodology and Competitive Email Intelligence Moat Nathan probes Michael on early-stage valuation frameworks beyond standard revenue multiples and interjects with competitors like BuiltWith and Siftery to test Michael's market moat.15:05–16:41 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Michael Johnson Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, concluding with Michael's cynical life advice and Nathan's rapid operational recap.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 51.3% · guest 48.7%0:00 · Nathan 51.3% · guest 48.7%3:00 · Nathan 25.2% · guest 74.8%3:00 · Nathan 25.2% · guest 74.8%6:00 · Nathan 48.3% · guest 51.7%6:00 · Nathan 48.3% · guest 51.7%9:00 · Nathan 21.8% · guest 78.2%9:00 · Nathan 21.8% · guest 78.2%12:00 · Nathan 29.1% · guest 70.9%12:00 · Nathan 29.1% · guest 70.9%15:00 · Nathan 55% · guest 45%15:00 · Nathan 55% · guest 45%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 4:20 Michael deflecting co-founder equity disclosure

Michael firmly refuses to disclose exact equity percentages, pushing back against Nathan's direct questioning before conceding a sub-40 percent estimate.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 7:32 Nathan challenging the 13-year burn claim

Nathan refuses to let a mathematical and timeline contradiction pass, pressing Michael on what he was doing for 13 years until Michael realizes he misspoke the founding year.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 14:45 Michael differentiating email intelligence from web scraping

Michael clarifies the core technical distinction between general web tech profilers like BuiltWith and Notable List's proprietary direct email header data parsing.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:43 Nathan dissecting early-stage startup valuation mechanics

Nathan drills Michael to articulate a concrete valuation methodology rather than a vanity number, distinguishing between revenue multiples and strategic acqui-hires.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Michael Johnson's Transition from Wall Street to Startups 5211 Nathan relates Michael's competitive email intelligence platform to common email service providers and his own workflow, prompting Michael to explain how sales teams use ESP data for prospecting.
Annual SaaS Subscription Model and Single-Tier Pricing 6135 Nathan deduces single-tier pricing from Michael's prompt answer and presses for the co-founder equity split, prompting Michael to deflect specifics while confirming he retained majority control.
Bootstrapped Revenue Growth and Customer Traction Milestones 6224 Nathan quickly computes the $150k ARR run rate and immediately challenges Michael on a supposed 13-year timeline gap, leading Michael to correct his 2004 slip to 2014.
HostGator Website Builder and Web Hosting Sponsorship Promotion 5312 Following the sponsorship break, Michael explains how Notable List analyzed Mandrill's transactional email fallout to SparkPost as an inbound marketing case study, with Nathan inquiring about CAC metrics.
Startup Valuation Methodology and Competitive Email Intelligence Moat 7225 Nathan probes Michael on early-stage valuation frameworks beyond standard revenue multiples and interjects with competitors like BuiltWith and Siftery to test Michael's market moat.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Michael Johnson 4121 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, concluding with Michael's cynical life advice and Nathan's rapid operational recap.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Johnson: NotableList Covers About 500,000 Brands Worldwide
“Right now, we cover about 500,000 brands around the world.”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 1:42
Disclosure
Johnson: NotableList charges $7,500 per single seat with multi-user discounts
“At present, yeah. Well, it's obviously multiple users. We work out discounts, but that's the single seat license price.”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 3:07
Disclosure
Johnson: NotableList operates with a three-person team
“Right now we are three. Myself, my co-founder, and a part-time salesperson who lives out in the West Coast.”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 4:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Johnson: NotableList reaches 20 customers across SaaS and consulting
“At present, we're at 20 customers. Most of those are annual customers. A few of them are consulting customers because we, in addition to our platform, we do custom consulting for people who are looking to use our data in interesting ways that maybe we haven't …”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 5:34
Disclosure
Johnson: NotableList salesperson is commission-only, but most sales came from network
“It's strictly commission. Our frankly, but frankly, most of our sales have not come through the sales salesperson himself, unless you count me. Most of the sales have come through through, through network marketing”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 6:20
Disclosure
Johnson: NotableList was funded entirely from personal savings and consulting income
“We funded it from you know, basically, you know, my bank account and basically giving up all the consulting income that I was making and just plows into the business.”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 8:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Johnson: NotableList achieves a 100% initial customer renewal rate
“Actually our first renewals have started coming in and so far we've had a perfect renewal rate.”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 9:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Johnson's data shows SparkPost edged out SendGrid among migrating Mandrill users
“Well, we took a look at it, and we saw that they'd, they'd gone to a combination of SparkPost, SendGrid, Mailgun, and to a lesser extent Amazon S, S-Tree, or SES. And for the most part, it looks like SparkPost, one, they edged out SendGrid by just a little bit…”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 11:44
Disclosure
Johnson: Invested Over $400K Into NotableList in Cash and Sweat Equity
“I think I've put more than that into it, frankly, between, you know, cash and giving up giving up hours.”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 12:28
Insight
NotableList analyzes actual emails instead of scraping webpages to identify tech stacks
“They're looking at web pages to see, you know, so if you want to know what someone's using in their email, obviously you want to look at the emails, not their web pages. And that's the key difference between what we do and say what a built with us or data nice…”
Michael Johnson Jul 3, 2018 ▶ 14:49
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