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Sep 24, 2018 · 20m · top-founders

1157 From Artist to $200k MRR SaaS Company for Content Publishing

Taj Forer · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of the Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Fable founder Taj Forer on transitioning from fine-art publishing to scaling an enterprise cloud storytelling SaaS platform to $200k in monthly recurring revenue.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.3 Guest teaching 1.8 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 4.5
05100:0010:0020:001:15–5:17 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Overview of Fable's Platform and Enterprise SaaS Model Nathan seeks to clarify Fable's business model, distinguishing pure-play SaaS from services add-ons and establishing typical enterprise ACV structures. Taj willingly elaborates on the platform's multi-tier offering and group-level licensing model.5:18–7:37 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Origins: Transitioning from Print Publishing to Cloud Software Taj details the transition from running an art book publishing company to building internal digital tools and eventually spinning out enterprise SaaS. Nathan listens attentively and asks clarifying timeline questions.7:37–11:05 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Traction, Pilot Conversions, and Product Stickiness Nathan forcefully presses Taj when he claims over 100 accounts, drilling down into whether they are paying customers or unpaid pilots. When Taj defensively retorts that they are a for-profit business, Nathan insists on finding the true count of paying logos, narrowing it down to 50.11:07–16:11 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Sponsor Break: Emma Email Marketing Platform Following the sponsor break, Nathan does direct arithmetic on Taj's stated $60k ACV and 50 accounts to estimate $250k MRR. When Taj attempts to deflect by saying they are bulletproof about sharing revenue, Nathan calls him out directly for contradicting his own numbers.16:12–19:06 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Team Composition, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Period Nathan drills into fully weighted CAC and rejects Taj's attempt to use gross profit margins to answer a CAC payback question. Nathan educates on financial accounting lines and presses until Taj provides a concrete acquisition cost cap.19:07–20:45 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format smoothly, and Taj gives concise, personal answers before the episode outro.1:15–5:17 · Guest teaching 2/10 Overview of Fable's Platform and Enterprise SaaS Model Nathan seeks to clarify Fable's business model, distinguishing pure-play SaaS from services add-ons and establishing typical enterprise ACV structures. Taj willingly elaborates on the platform's multi-tier offering and group-level licensing model.5:18–7:37 · Guest teaching 3/10 Origins: Transitioning from Print Publishing to Cloud Software Taj details the transition from running an art book publishing company to building internal digital tools and eventually spinning out enterprise SaaS. Nathan listens attentively and asks clarifying timeline questions.7:37–11:05 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Traction, Pilot Conversions, and Product Stickiness Nathan forcefully presses Taj when he claims over 100 accounts, drilling down into whether they are paying customers or unpaid pilots. When Taj defensively retorts that they are a for-profit business, Nathan insists on finding the true count of paying logos, narrowing it down to 50.11:07–16:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: Emma Email Marketing Platform Following the sponsor break, Nathan does direct arithmetic on Taj's stated $60k ACV and 50 accounts to estimate $250k MRR. When Taj attempts to deflect by saying they are bulletproof about sharing revenue, Nathan calls him out directly for contradicting his own numbers.16:12–19:06 · Guest teaching 1/10 Team Composition, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Period Nathan drills into fully weighted CAC and rejects Taj's attempt to use gross profit margins to answer a CAC payback question. Nathan educates on financial accounting lines and presses until Taj provides a concrete acquisition cost cap.19:07–20:45 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format smoothly, and Taj gives concise, personal answers before the episode outro.1:15–5:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Overview of Fable's Platform and Enterprise SaaS Model Nathan seeks to clarify Fable's business model, distinguishing pure-play SaaS from services add-ons and establishing typical enterprise ACV structures. Taj willingly elaborates on the platform's multi-tier offering and group-level licensing model.5:18–7:37 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Origins: Transitioning from Print Publishing to Cloud Software Taj details the transition from running an art book publishing company to building internal digital tools and eventually spinning out enterprise SaaS. Nathan listens attentively and asks clarifying timeline questions.7:37–11:05 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Customer Traction, Pilot Conversions, and Product Stickiness Nathan forcefully presses Taj when he claims over 100 accounts, drilling down into whether they are paying customers or unpaid pilots. When Taj defensively retorts that they are a for-profit business, Nathan insists on finding the true count of paying logos, narrowing it down to 50.11:07–16:11 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Sponsor Break: Emma Email Marketing Platform Following the sponsor break, Nathan does direct arithmetic on Taj's stated $60k ACV and 50 accounts to estimate $250k MRR. When Taj attempts to deflect by saying they are bulletproof about sharing revenue, Nathan calls him out directly for contradicting his own numbers.16:12–19:06 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Team Composition, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Period Nathan drills into fully weighted CAC and rejects Taj's attempt to use gross profit margins to answer a CAC payback question. Nathan educates on financial accounting lines and presses until Taj provides a concrete acquisition cost cap.19:07–20:45 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format smoothly, and Taj gives concise, personal answers before the episode outro.1:15–5:17 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Overview of Fable's Platform and Enterprise SaaS Model Nathan seeks to clarify Fable's business model, distinguishing pure-play SaaS from services add-ons and establishing typical enterprise ACV structures. Taj willingly elaborates on the platform's multi-tier offering and group-level licensing model.5:18–7:37 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Origins: Transitioning from Print Publishing to Cloud Software Taj details the transition from running an art book publishing company to building internal digital tools and eventually spinning out enterprise SaaS. Nathan listens attentively and asks clarifying timeline questions.7:37–11:05 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Customer Traction, Pilot Conversions, and Product Stickiness Nathan forcefully presses Taj when he claims over 100 accounts, drilling down into whether they are paying customers or unpaid pilots. When Taj defensively retorts that they are a for-profit business, Nathan insists on finding the true count of paying logos, narrowing it down to 50.11:07–16:11 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Sponsor Break: Emma Email Marketing Platform Following the sponsor break, Nathan does direct arithmetic on Taj's stated $60k ACV and 50 accounts to estimate $250k MRR. When Taj attempts to deflect by saying they are bulletproof about sharing revenue, Nathan calls him out directly for contradicting his own numbers.16:12–19:06 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Team Composition, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Period Nathan drills into fully weighted CAC and rejects Taj's attempt to use gross profit margins to answer a CAC payback question. Nathan educates on financial accounting lines and presses until Taj provides a concrete acquisition cost cap.19:07–20:45 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format smoothly, and Taj gives concise, personal answers before the episode outro.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 56.3% · guest 43.7%0:00 · Nathan 56.3% · guest 43.7%3:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%3:00 · Nathan 16% · guest 84%6:00 · Nathan 13.8% · guest 86.2%6:00 · Nathan 13.8% · guest 86.2%9:00 · Nathan 44.5% · guest 55.5%9:00 · Nathan 44.5% · guest 55.5%12:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%12:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%15:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%15:00 · Nathan 21.4% · guest 78.6%18:00 · Nathan 53.8% · guest 46.2%18:00 · Nathan 53.8% · guest 46.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:03 Refusing revenue disclosure after stating metrics

Taj resists Nathan's revenue calculation by claiming the company keeps revenue confidential, prompting a brief standoff over the figures he already provided.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:04 Refusing vague 100-account customer count

Nathan refuses to let Taj lump free trials and pilot projects together as active paying customers, relentlessly narrowing the number down to 50.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 15:10 Explaining agency and media company monetization nuance

Taj provides deep domain insight into why media companies operating custom content arms cannot use classic SaaS seat pricing, requiring hybrid per-campaign billing.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 18:26 Correcting below-the-line CAC vs gross margin

Nathan demonstrates financial mastery by correcting Taj when he conflates gross profit margin with CAC payback dynamics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Overview of Fable's Platform and Enterprise SaaS Model 6212 Nathan seeks to clarify Fable's business model, distinguishing pure-play SaaS from services add-ons and establishing typical enterprise ACV structures. Taj willingly elaborates on the platform's multi-tier offering and group-level licensing model.
Origins: Transitioning from Print Publishing to Cloud Software 4312 Taj details the transition from running an art book publishing company to building internal digital tools and eventually spinning out enterprise SaaS. Nathan listens attentively and asks clarifying timeline questions.
Customer Traction, Pilot Conversions, and Product Stickiness 7238 Nathan forcefully presses Taj when he claims over 100 accounts, drilling down into whether they are paying customers or unpaid pilots. When Taj defensively retorts that they are a for-profit business, Nathan insists on finding the true count of paying logos, narrowing it down to 50.
Sponsor Break: Emma Email Marketing Platform 8247 Following the sponsor break, Nathan does direct arithmetic on Taj's stated $60k ACV and 50 accounts to estimate $250k MRR. When Taj attempts to deflect by saying they are bulletproof about sharing revenue, Nathan calls him out directly for contradicting his own numbers.
Team Composition, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Period 8127 Nathan drills into fully weighted CAC and rejects Taj's attempt to use gross profit margins to answer a CAC payback question. Nathan educates on financial accounting lines and presses until Taj provides a concrete acquisition cost cap.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions and Episode Conclusion 5111 Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format smoothly, and Taj gives concise, personal answers before the episode outro.

Statements from this episode (6)

Disclosure
Fable Typically Charges $60K Annual SaaS Fee Per Enterprise Group
“We typically charge a 60 K annual SAS fee per group using the platform.”
Taj Forer Sep 24, 2018 ▶ 4:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Forer: Fable has over 50 active accounts on its platform
“We're north of 50 active accounts on the platform.”
Taj Forer Sep 24, 2018 ▶ 9:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Forer: Fable is growing at over 200% annually
“Oh, I mean, we're growing at over 200% a year right now, just in terms of growth rate.”
Taj Forer Sep 24, 2018 ▶ 10:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Forer: Fable saw 100% renewal on initial contracts
“Oh, we saw a hundred percent renewal from all of our initial contracts.”
Taj Forer Sep 24, 2018 ▶ 12:21
Disclosure
Forer: Fable has raised about $1 million in external capital
“We, we've raised only about a million bucks of external capital.”
Taj Forer Sep 24, 2018 ▶ 12:41
Disclosure
Forer: Fable caps CAC at $20,000 for $60,000 ACV accounts
“Well, no, I mean, we try not to spend more than 20 K acquiring a 60 K account.”
Taj Forer Sep 24, 2018 ▶ 18:54
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