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Jul 23, 2019 · 15m · top-founders

1459 He Left Growth At Buffer to Launch Amazon Retargeting Tool PixelMe, $10k in MRR

Max Berthelot · 7m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this interview on The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka speaks with PixelMe co-founder Max Berthelot about leaving his growth role at Buffer to scale an Amazon link-retargeting tool to $10,000 in monthly recurring revenue.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:000:00–2:04 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes His New Book This is a solo intro and promotional segment where Nathan pitches his book and provides background context on the guest and company.2:05–4:24 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Max Berthelot on Transitioning from Buffer to PixelMe Nathan presses Max on why he took time to leave his Buffer safety net and quickly calculates the implied ARPU based on customer count and MRR.4:25–8:05 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Analyzing AppSumo Launch Strategy and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan aggressively critiques AppSumo lifetime deals, comparing buyers to Groupon discount shoppers and challenging their long-term value. Max defends the strategy as a helpful kickstart for feedback and affiliate word-of-mouth.8:07–10:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Churn Metrics, Pricing Axes, and Affiliate Program Dynamics Nathan drills into churn mechanics, validating Max's net revenue churn claim and probing pricing metrics and affiliate kickback agreements.10:38–13:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Growth Tactics, Content Strategy, and Technical Defensibility Nathan interrupts Max to push back when Max cites content marketing as a unique channel, and questions whether the tool is easily replicable. Max explains technical anti-phishing and uptime complexities.13:37–14:41 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a quick, collaborative manner.0:00–2:04 · Guest teaching 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes His New Book This is a solo intro and promotional segment where Nathan pitches his book and provides background context on the guest and company.2:05–4:24 · Guest teaching 2/10 Max Berthelot on Transitioning from Buffer to PixelMe Nathan presses Max on why he took time to leave his Buffer safety net and quickly calculates the implied ARPU based on customer count and MRR.4:25–8:05 · Guest teaching 4/10 Analyzing AppSumo Launch Strategy and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan aggressively critiques AppSumo lifetime deals, comparing buyers to Groupon discount shoppers and challenging their long-term value. Max defends the strategy as a helpful kickstart for feedback and affiliate word-of-mouth.8:07–10:37 · Guest teaching 2/10 Churn Metrics, Pricing Axes, and Affiliate Program Dynamics Nathan drills into churn mechanics, validating Max's net revenue churn claim and probing pricing metrics and affiliate kickback agreements.10:38–13:37 · Guest teaching 3/10 Growth Tactics, Content Strategy, and Technical Defensibility Nathan interrupts Max to push back when Max cites content marketing as a unique channel, and questions whether the tool is easily replicable. Max explains technical anti-phishing and uptime complexities.13:37–14:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a quick, collaborative manner.0:00–2:04 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes His New Book This is a solo intro and promotional segment where Nathan pitches his book and provides background context on the guest and company.2:05–4:24 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Max Berthelot on Transitioning from Buffer to PixelMe Nathan presses Max on why he took time to leave his Buffer safety net and quickly calculates the implied ARPU based on customer count and MRR.4:25–8:05 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Analyzing AppSumo Launch Strategy and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan aggressively critiques AppSumo lifetime deals, comparing buyers to Groupon discount shoppers and challenging their long-term value. Max defends the strategy as a helpful kickstart for feedback and affiliate word-of-mouth.8:07–10:37 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Churn Metrics, Pricing Axes, and Affiliate Program Dynamics Nathan drills into churn mechanics, validating Max's net revenue churn claim and probing pricing metrics and affiliate kickback agreements.10:38–13:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Growth Tactics, Content Strategy, and Technical Defensibility Nathan interrupts Max to push back when Max cites content marketing as a unique channel, and questions whether the tool is easily replicable. Max explains technical anti-phishing and uptime complexities.13:37–14:41 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a quick, collaborative manner.0:00–2:04 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes His New Book This is a solo intro and promotional segment where Nathan pitches his book and provides background context on the guest and company.2:05–4:24 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Max Berthelot on Transitioning from Buffer to PixelMe Nathan presses Max on why he took time to leave his Buffer safety net and quickly calculates the implied ARPU based on customer count and MRR.4:25–8:05 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Analyzing AppSumo Launch Strategy and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan aggressively critiques AppSumo lifetime deals, comparing buyers to Groupon discount shoppers and challenging their long-term value. Max defends the strategy as a helpful kickstart for feedback and affiliate word-of-mouth.8:07–10:37 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Churn Metrics, Pricing Axes, and Affiliate Program Dynamics Nathan drills into churn mechanics, validating Max's net revenue churn claim and probing pricing metrics and affiliate kickback agreements.10:38–13:37 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Growth Tactics, Content Strategy, and Technical Defensibility Nathan interrupts Max to push back when Max cites content marketing as a unique channel, and questions whether the tool is easily replicable. Max explains technical anti-phishing and uptime complexities.13:37–14:41 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a quick, collaborative manner.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 87.5% · guest 12.5%0:00 · Nathan 87.5% · guest 12.5%3:00 · Nathan 23.2% · guest 76.8%3:00 · Nathan 23.2% · guest 76.8%6:00 · Nathan 35.5% · guest 64.5%6:00 · Nathan 35.5% · guest 64.5%9:00 · Nathan 33.6% · guest 66.4%9:00 · Nathan 33.6% · guest 66.4%12:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%12:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%15:00 · Nathan 92.8% · guest 7.2%15:00 · Nathan 92.8% · guest 7.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:45 Max defends lifetime deals as initial fuel

Max pushes back on Nathan's dismissal of discount buyers, explaining that the initial surge of capital and user feedback provided essential early momentum.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:26 Nathan attacks the AppSumo customer profile

Nathan rejects the premise that AppSumo buyers are high-value customers, equating them to failing Groupon and bargain shoppers.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 12:48 Max details the anti-phishing hurdle of shortlink infrastructure

When Nathan claims the product can be trivially copied, Max educates him on the complex engineering required to prevent phishing abuse and guarantee complete uptime.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 4:57 Nathan deconstructs the lifetime deal trap

Nathan displays deep SaaS acumen by immediately outlining how lifetime deals cannibalize recurring cash flow while saddling founders with ongoing support costs.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Promotes His New Book 0000 This is a solo intro and promotional segment where Nathan pitches his book and provides background context on the guest and company.
Max Berthelot on Transitioning from Buffer to PixelMe 5213 Nathan presses Max on why he took time to leave his Buffer safety net and quickly calculates the implied ARPU based on customer count and MRR.
Analyzing AppSumo Launch Strategy and Customer Lifetime Value 7437 Nathan aggressively critiques AppSumo lifetime deals, comparing buyers to Groupon discount shoppers and challenging their long-term value. Max defends the strategy as a helpful kickstart for feedback and affiliate word-of-mouth.
Churn Metrics, Pricing Axes, and Affiliate Program Dynamics 6213 Nathan drills into churn mechanics, validating Max's net revenue churn claim and probing pricing metrics and affiliate kickback agreements.
Growth Tactics, Content Strategy, and Technical Defensibility 6326 Nathan interrupts Max to push back when Max cites content marketing as a unique channel, and questions whether the tool is easily replicable. Max explains technical anti-phishing and uptime complexities.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2101 Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a quick, collaborative manner.

Statements from this episode (9)

Disclosure
Berthelot: PixelMe has 300 paying customers and nearly $10k MRR
“And yeah, we have 300 paying customers now, three, yeah, 300 paying customers, and like almost 10 K in revenue.”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 3:56
Disclosure
Berthelot: PixelMe's ARPU is around $29 per month
“Yeah, it's like the ARPU is like around 20, 29 or something like that, yeah.”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 4:17
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berthelot: PixelMe acquired 5,000 customers via AppSumo promotion
“The main thing is like, you're getting like, we got like, 5000 customers in one room.”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 5:27
Insight
Berthelot: AppSumo customers are poor long-term users but great for kickstarting products
“We don't really want them, but I think that's great to start with them. It's a great start. So it's like, put some, like, dollars in the machine at first, the engine, and then you, like, use them, you spread the word, it's content on the website, on the web, s…”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 6:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berthelot: Buffer retains almost no users from its AppSumo promotion
“We almost don't have any AppSumo users at Buffer anymore,”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 7:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berthelot: PixelMe Monthly Customer Churn Ranges Between 3.5% and 4.5%
“Yeah, so the churn is like, so the customer churn is like 4.5, something like that, 4.5 and 3.5, depending on the month and like, yeah.”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 8:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Berthelot: PixelMe Net Revenue Churn Sits Around Zero Percent
“And the net revenue churn is like around zero. So we managed to have like negative net margin last month and like, yeah, we're playing with that.”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 8:26
Disclosure
Berthelot: PixelMe Pays Affiliates a 30% Lifetime Recurring Commission
“Oh, it's pretty percent. On every sale. So every month, as long as someone is still paying picks on me, we still like giving back like 30% on the plan.”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 10:12
Insight
Berthelot: Link-retargeting software defensibility comes from branding, not complex tech
“Yeah, I think, like technically it's not that complicated. The, like, technically, like, the only, like, the part is, like, the phishing, like, you need to take care of that and be aware of, like, you need to build a system that prevents phishing, which is, li…”
Max Berthelot Jul 23, 2019 ▶ 12:49
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