StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Sep 29, 2019 · 21m · top-founders

1527 Supply Chain Risk Company Hits $7m in ARR, 130 Customers

Heiko Schwarz · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode, host Nathan Latka interviews Heiko Schwarz, founder and managing director of Risk Methods, analyzing how the supply chain risk management platform scaled to $650,000 in monthly recurring revenue across 130 enterprise clients. Schwarz outlines the company's product-led expansion strategy, modular software architecture, capital-efficient unit economics, and growth journey from bootstrapping to institutional venture capital.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 34.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.2 Guest teaching 3.0 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 3.2
05100:0010:0020:000:00–4:29 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Executive Summary of Risk Methods Performance Metrics Nathan gives an introductory breakdown of metrics before asking Heiko to explain the value proposition of supply chain risk management. Heiko expands in detail across physical disruptions, financial risks, and compliance/reputation threats, with Nathan interjecting examples like Apple/Foxconn and natural disasters.4:29–6:58 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Target Enterprise Profile and Value-Based Pricing Structure Nathan presses Heiko to move past wide fee ranges and establish a concrete average monthly customer spend. Heiko explains their value-based pricing tiers tied to client revenue bands and clarifies that their average customer pays $5k per month on $2B enterprise revenue.6:58–9:10 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Founding Timeline, Modular Product Architecture, and Global Offices Heiko lays out the 2013 founding timeline and the modular architecture spanning threat monitoring, impact assessment, and mitigation. Nathan inquires about team size, geographic offices across Munich, Boston, and Poland, and total customer count.9:10–13:55 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Early Bootstrapping and Personal Founder Commitment Nathan probes founder capital commitment and presses Heiko on whether they are raising or exploring an acquisition after their $15M Series B. When Nathan argues venture debt is cheaper and non-dilutive, Heiko explains the dangerous operational stress of strict debt covenants if KPIs are missed.13:55–16:57 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Negative Churn and Product-Led Expansion Strategy Heiko mentions having double-digit negative churn, which Nathan immediately translates and clarifies into net revenue retention exceeding 110%. Heiko details how their expansion is driven by customers naturally maturing into subsequent product modules rather than direct sales upselling.16:57–20:54 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Revenue Run Rate Nathan rapid-fires calculations on CAC, payback periods, and LTV multiples before deducing the current MRR run-rate around $600k-$650k. Heiko validates the figures, highlights second-half seasonality, and answers the Famous Five questions.0:00–4:29 · Guest teaching 4/10 Executive Summary of Risk Methods Performance Metrics Nathan gives an introductory breakdown of metrics before asking Heiko to explain the value proposition of supply chain risk management. Heiko expands in detail across physical disruptions, financial risks, and compliance/reputation threats, with Nathan interjecting examples like Apple/Foxconn and natural disasters.4:29–6:58 · Guest teaching 3/10 Target Enterprise Profile and Value-Based Pricing Structure Nathan presses Heiko to move past wide fee ranges and establish a concrete average monthly customer spend. Heiko explains their value-based pricing tiers tied to client revenue bands and clarifies that their average customer pays $5k per month on $2B enterprise revenue.6:58–9:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Founding Timeline, Modular Product Architecture, and Global Offices Heiko lays out the 2013 founding timeline and the modular architecture spanning threat monitoring, impact assessment, and mitigation. Nathan inquires about team size, geographic offices across Munich, Boston, and Poland, and total customer count.9:10–13:55 · Guest teaching 4/10 Early Bootstrapping and Personal Founder Commitment Nathan probes founder capital commitment and presses Heiko on whether they are raising or exploring an acquisition after their $15M Series B. When Nathan argues venture debt is cheaper and non-dilutive, Heiko explains the dangerous operational stress of strict debt covenants if KPIs are missed.13:55–16:57 · Guest teaching 3/10 Negative Churn and Product-Led Expansion Strategy Heiko mentions having double-digit negative churn, which Nathan immediately translates and clarifies into net revenue retention exceeding 110%. Heiko details how their expansion is driven by customers naturally maturing into subsequent product modules rather than direct sales upselling.16:57–20:54 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Revenue Run Rate Nathan rapid-fires calculations on CAC, payback periods, and LTV multiples before deducing the current MRR run-rate around $600k-$650k. Heiko validates the figures, highlights second-half seasonality, and answers the Famous Five questions.0:00–4:29 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Executive Summary of Risk Methods Performance Metrics Nathan gives an introductory breakdown of metrics before asking Heiko to explain the value proposition of supply chain risk management. Heiko expands in detail across physical disruptions, financial risks, and compliance/reputation threats, with Nathan interjecting examples like Apple/Foxconn and natural disasters.4:29–6:58 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Target Enterprise Profile and Value-Based Pricing Structure Nathan presses Heiko to move past wide fee ranges and establish a concrete average monthly customer spend. Heiko explains their value-based pricing tiers tied to client revenue bands and clarifies that their average customer pays $5k per month on $2B enterprise revenue.6:58–9:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Timeline, Modular Product Architecture, and Global Offices Heiko lays out the 2013 founding timeline and the modular architecture spanning threat monitoring, impact assessment, and mitigation. Nathan inquires about team size, geographic offices across Munich, Boston, and Poland, and total customer count.9:10–13:55 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Early Bootstrapping and Personal Founder Commitment Nathan probes founder capital commitment and presses Heiko on whether they are raising or exploring an acquisition after their $15M Series B. When Nathan argues venture debt is cheaper and non-dilutive, Heiko explains the dangerous operational stress of strict debt covenants if KPIs are missed.13:55–16:57 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Negative Churn and Product-Led Expansion Strategy Heiko mentions having double-digit negative churn, which Nathan immediately translates and clarifies into net revenue retention exceeding 110%. Heiko details how their expansion is driven by customers naturally maturing into subsequent product modules rather than direct sales upselling.16:57–20:54 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Revenue Run Rate Nathan rapid-fires calculations on CAC, payback periods, and LTV multiples before deducing the current MRR run-rate around $600k-$650k. Heiko validates the figures, highlights second-half seasonality, and answers the Famous Five questions.0:00–4:29 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Executive Summary of Risk Methods Performance Metrics Nathan gives an introductory breakdown of metrics before asking Heiko to explain the value proposition of supply chain risk management. Heiko expands in detail across physical disruptions, financial risks, and compliance/reputation threats, with Nathan interjecting examples like Apple/Foxconn and natural disasters.4:29–6:58 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Target Enterprise Profile and Value-Based Pricing Structure Nathan presses Heiko to move past wide fee ranges and establish a concrete average monthly customer spend. Heiko explains their value-based pricing tiers tied to client revenue bands and clarifies that their average customer pays $5k per month on $2B enterprise revenue.6:58–9:10 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Founding Timeline, Modular Product Architecture, and Global Offices Heiko lays out the 2013 founding timeline and the modular architecture spanning threat monitoring, impact assessment, and mitigation. Nathan inquires about team size, geographic offices across Munich, Boston, and Poland, and total customer count.9:10–13:55 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Early Bootstrapping and Personal Founder Commitment Nathan probes founder capital commitment and presses Heiko on whether they are raising or exploring an acquisition after their $15M Series B. When Nathan argues venture debt is cheaper and non-dilutive, Heiko explains the dangerous operational stress of strict debt covenants if KPIs are missed.13:55–16:57 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Negative Churn and Product-Led Expansion Strategy Heiko mentions having double-digit negative churn, which Nathan immediately translates and clarifies into net revenue retention exceeding 110%. Heiko details how their expansion is driven by customers naturally maturing into subsequent product modules rather than direct sales upselling.16:57–20:54 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Customer Acquisition Economics and Revenue Run Rate Nathan rapid-fires calculations on CAC, payback periods, and LTV multiples before deducing the current MRR run-rate around $600k-$650k. Heiko validates the figures, highlights second-half seasonality, and answers the Famous Five questions.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 46.7% · guest 53.3%0:00 · Nathan 46.7% · guest 53.3%3:00 · Nathan 15.1% · guest 84.9%3:00 · Nathan 15.1% · guest 84.9%6:00 · Nathan 21.1% · guest 78.9%6:00 · Nathan 21.1% · guest 78.9%9:00 · Nathan 36.7% · guest 63.3%9:00 · Nathan 36.7% · guest 63.3%12:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%12:00 · Nathan 41.8% · guest 58.2%15:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%15:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%18:00 · Nathan 31.5% · guest 68.5%18:00 · Nathan 31.5% · guest 68.5%21:00 · Nathan 95.2% · guest 4.8%21:00 · Nathan 95.2% · guest 4.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 11:28 Heiko denies fundraising and M&A speculation

Nathan asserts that being on the VC treadmill means Heiko is actively fundraising or discussing an acquisition, which Heiko flatly denies.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:01 Nathan presses for specific average customer contract value

Nathan refuses broad generalizations about pricing tiers and forces Heiko to define the exact average monthly contract value.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:03 Heiko educates Nathan on the hidden risks of venture debt covenants

After Nathan advocates venture debt as cheap non-dilutive capital, Heiko explains how strict debt covenants create severe stress when KPIs fluctuate.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:20 Nathan translates negative churn into annual NRR benchmarks

Nathan takes Heiko's high-level double-digit negative churn claim and instantly converts it into SaaS net revenue retention metrics exceeding 110%.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Executive Summary of Risk Methods Performance Metrics 5412 Nathan gives an introductory breakdown of metrics before asking Heiko to explain the value proposition of supply chain risk management. Heiko expands in detail across physical disruptions, financial risks, and compliance/reputation threats, with Nathan interjecting examples like Apple/Foxconn and natural disasters.
Target Enterprise Profile and Value-Based Pricing Structure 6324 Nathan presses Heiko to move past wide fee ranges and establish a concrete average monthly customer spend. Heiko explains their value-based pricing tiers tied to client revenue bands and clarifies that their average customer pays $5k per month on $2B enterprise revenue.
Founding Timeline, Modular Product Architecture, and Global Offices 5211 Heiko lays out the 2013 founding timeline and the modular architecture spanning threat monitoring, impact assessment, and mitigation. Nathan inquires about team size, geographic offices across Munich, Boston, and Poland, and total customer count.
Early Bootstrapping and Personal Founder Commitment 7436 Nathan probes founder capital commitment and presses Heiko on whether they are raising or exploring an acquisition after their $15M Series B. When Nathan argues venture debt is cheaper and non-dilutive, Heiko explains the dangerous operational stress of strict debt covenants if KPIs are missed.
Negative Churn and Product-Led Expansion Strategy 7323 Heiko mentions having double-digit negative churn, which Nathan immediately translates and clarifies into net revenue retention exceeding 110%. Heiko details how their expansion is driven by customers naturally maturing into subsequent product modules rather than direct sales upselling.
Customer Acquisition Economics and Revenue Run Rate 7213 Nathan rapid-fires calculations on CAC, payback periods, and LTV multiples before deducing the current MRR run-rate around $600k-$650k. Heiko validates the figures, highlights second-half seasonality, and answers the Famous Five questions.

Statements from this episode (13)

Disclosure
Schwarz: Risk Methods pricing ranges from $2K to over $100K monthly
“So our offering starts with close to two grants a month for the smaller enterprises and it goes direction and even crossing six digit monthly fees.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 5:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwarz: Risk Methods averages around $5,000 per month per customer
“So on average, we are around the area of five K a month.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 6:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwarz: Risk Methods' average $5K/mo customer has $2B in turnover
“Their typical size is in the area of two billion turnover.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 6:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwarz: Risk Methods crossed 140 employees
“So we just crossed 100 40 employees”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 8:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwarz: Risk Methods serves 430 enterprise customers in Europe and North America
“So we, today, as of today, we serve from customer base of 430 enterprises across, which are headquartered across Europe and North America.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 9:17
Disclosure
Schwarz: Risk Methods co-founders invested a six-figure sum of personal savings
“So we put in a six digit figure into the foundation.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 10:17
Disclosure
Risk Methods Has Raised Over $20M in Total Funding
“So far we raised north of twenty million dollars through in series A and series B. We went through in series B springtime last year and we raised around fifteen million dollars into the series B.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 10:50
Insight
Schwarz Warns Missing Venture Debt KPIs Creates Severe Founder Stress
“I had some thought and experience exchange with other founders who did venture depths, and as soon as they cross or match and miss some of the important KPIs, these players might become really, really stressful.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 13:08
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwarz: Risk Methods maintains double-digit negative annual revenue churn
“Well, I, I'm not going to disclose the Precise figure, but we have a negative and two-digit negative churn, and which is an amazing, amazing sign in terms of customer satisfaction.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 14:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Schwarz: Seat and volume expansions represent only ~1% of upsells
“Yeah, but that's not the, I think this is kind of representing maybe one percent of the upsells.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 16:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
riskmethods Achieves CAC Payback Period Under 12 Months
“Our RI is usually below 12 months payback period.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 17:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
riskmethods Reports 6x LTV-to-CAC Ratio
“It's a decent multiple of six as of today.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 17:43
Assertion Not checkable as stated
riskmethods Generates 70% of New Business in H2
“We usually do 70% of our new business in, in the second half of the year, so it's really like an, Budget cycle driven year end rally.”
Heiko Schwarz Sep 29, 2019 ▶ 18:19
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more