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Nov 4, 2019 · 16m · top-founders

1563 Why $28M+ ARR Wrike Tests New Channels at 24 Month Payback, Then Stabilizes at 12 Month Payback Over Time

Andrew Filev · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Wrike founder and CEO Andrew Filev discusses how the enterprise collaboration platform scaled past $28 million in ARR with exceptional capital efficiency, raising only $27 million while balancing hybrid land-and-expand sales motions and disciplined customer acquisition payback cycles.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.3 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 3.3 Nathan pushing back 5.0
05100:0010:000:37–5:21 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Hybrid Sales Model, Expansion Mechanics, and Seat Pricing Latka pushes Filev to clarify the boundary between free customer success and paid professional services, drilling into onboarding fee structures and percentage of revenue.5:21–8:30 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Net Revenue Retention Strategies and Expansion Drivers Latka references his dataset of 3,000 SaaS CEOs to benchmark top-tier net retention at 140-150% and probes Filev on pricing expansion axes.8:30–14:34 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Capital Efficiency, CAC Payback Windows, and Channel Testing Latka reverse engineers Wrike's ARR using freemium conversion benchmarks, while Filev resists disclosing exact revenue and tells Latka his math underestimates the business. Latka holds his ground, refusing to adjust the $28M estimate without actual numbers.14:35–16:42 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire CEO Questionnaire During the Famous Five, Latka redirects Filev after a non-answer about what he would tell his twenty-year-old self, forcing a concrete takeaway.0:37–5:21 · Guest teaching 3/10 Hybrid Sales Model, Expansion Mechanics, and Seat Pricing Latka pushes Filev to clarify the boundary between free customer success and paid professional services, drilling into onboarding fee structures and percentage of revenue.5:21–8:30 · Guest teaching 2/10 Net Revenue Retention Strategies and Expansion Drivers Latka references his dataset of 3,000 SaaS CEOs to benchmark top-tier net retention at 140-150% and probes Filev on pricing expansion axes.8:30–14:34 · Guest teaching 4/10 Capital Efficiency, CAC Payback Windows, and Channel Testing Latka reverse engineers Wrike's ARR using freemium conversion benchmarks, while Filev resists disclosing exact revenue and tells Latka his math underestimates the business. Latka holds his ground, refusing to adjust the $28M estimate without actual numbers.14:35–16:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire CEO Questionnaire During the Famous Five, Latka redirects Filev after a non-answer about what he would tell his twenty-year-old self, forcing a concrete takeaway.0:37–5:21 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Hybrid Sales Model, Expansion Mechanics, and Seat Pricing Latka pushes Filev to clarify the boundary between free customer success and paid professional services, drilling into onboarding fee structures and percentage of revenue.5:21–8:30 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Net Revenue Retention Strategies and Expansion Drivers Latka references his dataset of 3,000 SaaS CEOs to benchmark top-tier net retention at 140-150% and probes Filev on pricing expansion axes.8:30–14:34 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Capital Efficiency, CAC Payback Windows, and Channel Testing Latka reverse engineers Wrike's ARR using freemium conversion benchmarks, while Filev resists disclosing exact revenue and tells Latka his math underestimates the business. Latka holds his ground, refusing to adjust the $28M estimate without actual numbers.14:35–16:42 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire CEO Questionnaire During the Famous Five, Latka redirects Filev after a non-answer about what he would tell his twenty-year-old self, forcing a concrete takeaway.0:37–5:21 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Hybrid Sales Model, Expansion Mechanics, and Seat Pricing Latka pushes Filev to clarify the boundary between free customer success and paid professional services, drilling into onboarding fee structures and percentage of revenue.5:21–8:30 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Net Revenue Retention Strategies and Expansion Drivers Latka references his dataset of 3,000 SaaS CEOs to benchmark top-tier net retention at 140-150% and probes Filev on pricing expansion axes.8:30–14:34 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Capital Efficiency, CAC Payback Windows, and Channel Testing Latka reverse engineers Wrike's ARR using freemium conversion benchmarks, while Filev resists disclosing exact revenue and tells Latka his math underestimates the business. Latka holds his ground, refusing to adjust the $28M estimate without actual numbers.14:35–16:42 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire CEO Questionnaire During the Famous Five, Latka redirects Filev after a non-answer about what he would tell his twenty-year-old self, forcing a concrete takeaway.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%0:00 · Nathan 28.7% · guest 71.3%3:00 · Nathan 26.5% · guest 73.5%3:00 · Nathan 26.5% · guest 73.5%6:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%6:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%9:00 · Nathan 41.1% · guest 58.9%9:00 · Nathan 41.1% · guest 58.9%12:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%12:00 · Nathan 35.6% · guest 64.4%15:00 · Nathan 69.2% · guest 30.8%15:00 · Nathan 69.2% · guest 30.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:26 Filev draws a hard line on revenue disclosures

Filev explicitly refuses to answer further revenue questions and tells Latka that his reverse-engineered numbers grossly underestimate reality.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:51 Latka refuses to budge on the $28M ARR figure

Latka counters Filev's pushback by asserting that without real numbers from the guest, he will firmly keep the estimate at $28M ARR.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:40 Filev clarifies users vs paid seats and logos

Filev educates Latka on why 2 million total users cannot be treated as paid seats due to free collaborators within paid organizations.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:36 Latka models ARR using Typeform conversion benchmarks

Latka demonstrates deep SaaS domain knowledge by applying standard freemium conversion percentages to derive seat count and monthly recurring revenue.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Hybrid Sales Model, Expansion Mechanics, and Seat Pricing 6325 Latka pushes Filev to clarify the boundary between free customer success and paid professional services, drilling into onboarding fee structures and percentage of revenue.
Net Revenue Retention Strategies and Expansion Drivers 7223 Latka references his dataset of 3,000 SaaS CEOs to benchmark top-tier net retention at 140-150% and probes Filev on pricing expansion axes.
Capital Efficiency, CAC Payback Windows, and Channel Testing 8468 Latka reverse engineers Wrike's ARR using freemium conversion benchmarks, while Filev resists disclosing exact revenue and tells Latka his math underestimates the business. Latka holds his ground, refusing to adjust the $28M estimate without actual numbers.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire CEO Questionnaire 4234 During the Famous Five, Latka redirects Filev after a non-answer about what he would tell his twenty-year-old self, forcing a concrete takeaway.

Statements from this episode (12)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike starts about 40,000 new company trials per month
“We have about 40,000 trial starting every month and trial typically it equates a new company. So it's not an individual trial, right? It's an organization”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 0:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike average seat price is between $20 and $30 monthly
“On the per seat basis I'd say the average is between 20 and 30. So the SMBs are usually below 20 and their enterprise are usually above 30 companies.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 2:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike employs 200-300 in R&D, 100+ in sales, and 50 in support
“Our R&D organization is between two and 300 people. Our support team is 50, and then our sales organization is north of hundred employees, and then we got about another hundred in customer success and professional services, because which, please don't confuse …”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 2:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Professional services account for under 5% of Wrike's revenue
“Oh no, wait, wait. Less than five percent.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 5:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike's net revenue retention is over 100%
“So we are over a hundred percent net revenue retention, which is very, very big for us.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 5:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike's revenue expansion has primarily been driven by seat growth
“In the last past two years, it's mostly been just organic growth of accounts, so number of seats.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 8:10
Assertion Supported
Filev: Wrike has raised north of $27 million in total capital
“We raised north of twenty seven million dollars.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 8:36
Disclosure
Filev: Wrike targets one-year CAC payback, accepting two years on new channels
“For their ad scale and established programs we try to get to Gross, a sales and marketing efficiency of one, meaning a one year payback. For the new investments. So the channels that are actively growing, we're exploring them. We are ready to invest. So someti…”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 9:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike has 18,000 paid customer organizations
“18,000 to be more correct.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 10:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev confirms Wrike's revenue exceeds $28.8 million in ARR
“Well, the exact revenue number I will not disclose, but I can tell you that your math underestimates it.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 12:10
Assertion Supported
Filev: Wrike grew 539% over three years on Deloitte's ranking
“We were named one of the fastest growing companies in North America four years in a row. In the last three years, I believe their growth rate was 530, five 39, yeah 539% on the last three years.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 13:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Filev: Wrike's annual growth rate is in the high double digits and accelerating
“That, that, that, that's correct. On kind of higher, higher end higher end of their double digit growth. And in the last year we've actually accelerated.”
Andrew Filev Nov 4, 2019 ▶ 13:45
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