StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Jul 15, 2021 · 16m · top-founders

CPG Data SaaS Doubles to $1.6m ARR, Raising $3m on $18m Now

Pan Dezarellis · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 4m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Convert Group co-founder Pan Dezarellis sits down with Nathan Latka to discuss how the company pivoted from an e-commerce consultancy to a data intelligence SaaS platform, doubled ARR to €1.6 million, and structured an active €3 million fundraising round at an €18 million valuation.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 33.1% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.6 Guest teaching 3.4 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:000:43–3:12 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Convert Group's Origins and Consultancy Divestment Latka guides the founder through the backstory of transitioning from a service business to SaaS. Dezarellis cooperatively explains the sale of the consulting arm to EY for 1x revenue to fully fund the SaaS venture.3:12–6:20 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Fundraising Plans Latka challenges Dezarellis with conflicting fundraising figures gathered by his research team. Dezarellis clarifies that the agency was bootstrapped from profits and only 1.2M euros was raised for the SaaS entity at a 6M pre-money valuation.6:20–11:10 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Enterprise Customer Acquisition and Marketplace Dynamics Latka demonstrates strong SaaS domain expertise by immediately translating Dezarellis's negative churn numbers into a 105% net dollar retention rate. Dezarellis explains their two-sided data marketplace dynamic where onboarding retailer data is the true operational bottleneck.11:10–14:03 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Data Neutrality Vision and Company Capitalization Latka repeatedly suggests monetizing unique data sets via an internal debt/credit fund akin to CircleUp. Dezarellis dismisses the premise, arguing Convert Group must remain neutral like Nielsen and Switzerland to maintain brand trust.14:03–16:09 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Standard Famous Five sequence characterized by friendly banter about sleeping four hours a night and drinking beer late in Greece, followed by Latka's rapid-fire executive summary of the business metrics.0:43–3:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Convert Group's Origins and Consultancy Divestment Latka guides the founder through the backstory of transitioning from a service business to SaaS. Dezarellis cooperatively explains the sale of the consulting arm to EY for 1x revenue to fully fund the SaaS venture.3:12–6:20 · Guest teaching 5/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Fundraising Plans Latka challenges Dezarellis with conflicting fundraising figures gathered by his research team. Dezarellis clarifies that the agency was bootstrapped from profits and only 1.2M euros was raised for the SaaS entity at a 6M pre-money valuation.6:20–11:10 · Guest teaching 4/10 Enterprise Customer Acquisition and Marketplace Dynamics Latka demonstrates strong SaaS domain expertise by immediately translating Dezarellis's negative churn numbers into a 105% net dollar retention rate. Dezarellis explains their two-sided data marketplace dynamic where onboarding retailer data is the true operational bottleneck.11:10–14:03 · Guest teaching 5/10 Data Neutrality Vision and Company Capitalization Latka repeatedly suggests monetizing unique data sets via an internal debt/credit fund akin to CircleUp. Dezarellis dismisses the premise, arguing Convert Group must remain neutral like Nielsen and Switzerland to maintain brand trust.14:03–16:09 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Standard Famous Five sequence characterized by friendly banter about sleeping four hours a night and drinking beer late in Greece, followed by Latka's rapid-fire executive summary of the business metrics.0:43–3:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Convert Group's Origins and Consultancy Divestment Latka guides the founder through the backstory of transitioning from a service business to SaaS. Dezarellis cooperatively explains the sale of the consulting arm to EY for 1x revenue to fully fund the SaaS venture.3:12–6:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Fundraising Plans Latka challenges Dezarellis with conflicting fundraising figures gathered by his research team. Dezarellis clarifies that the agency was bootstrapped from profits and only 1.2M euros was raised for the SaaS entity at a 6M pre-money valuation.6:20–11:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Enterprise Customer Acquisition and Marketplace Dynamics Latka demonstrates strong SaaS domain expertise by immediately translating Dezarellis's negative churn numbers into a 105% net dollar retention rate. Dezarellis explains their two-sided data marketplace dynamic where onboarding retailer data is the true operational bottleneck.11:10–14:03 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Data Neutrality Vision and Company Capitalization Latka repeatedly suggests monetizing unique data sets via an internal debt/credit fund akin to CircleUp. Dezarellis dismisses the premise, arguing Convert Group must remain neutral like Nielsen and Switzerland to maintain brand trust.14:03–16:09 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Standard Famous Five sequence characterized by friendly banter about sleeping four hours a night and drinking beer late in Greece, followed by Latka's rapid-fire executive summary of the business metrics.0:43–3:12 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Convert Group's Origins and Consultancy Divestment Latka guides the founder through the backstory of transitioning from a service business to SaaS. Dezarellis cooperatively explains the sale of the consulting arm to EY for 1x revenue to fully fund the SaaS venture.3:12–6:20 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Fundraising Plans Latka challenges Dezarellis with conflicting fundraising figures gathered by his research team. Dezarellis clarifies that the agency was bootstrapped from profits and only 1.2M euros was raised for the SaaS entity at a 6M pre-money valuation.6:20–11:10 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Enterprise Customer Acquisition and Marketplace Dynamics Latka demonstrates strong SaaS domain expertise by immediately translating Dezarellis's negative churn numbers into a 105% net dollar retention rate. Dezarellis explains their two-sided data marketplace dynamic where onboarding retailer data is the true operational bottleneck.11:10–14:03 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Data Neutrality Vision and Company Capitalization Latka repeatedly suggests monetizing unique data sets via an internal debt/credit fund akin to CircleUp. Dezarellis dismisses the premise, arguing Convert Group must remain neutral like Nielsen and Switzerland to maintain brand trust.14:03–16:09 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion Standard Famous Five sequence characterized by friendly banter about sleeping four hours a night and drinking beer late in Greece, followed by Latka's rapid-fire executive summary of the business metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 47.8% · guest 52.2%0:00 · Nathan 47.8% · guest 52.2%3:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%3:00 · Nathan 27.6% · guest 72.4%6:00 · Nathan 17.3% · guest 82.7%6:00 · Nathan 17.3% · guest 82.7%9:00 · Nathan 30.4% · guest 69.6%9:00 · Nathan 30.4% · guest 69.6%12:00 · Nathan 29.8% · guest 70.2%12:00 · Nathan 29.8% · guest 70.2%15:00 · Nathan 67.2% · guest 32.8%15:00 · Nathan 67.2% · guest 32.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:28 Rejection of proprietary investment fund idea

Dezarellis firmly counters Latka's repeated suggestions of launching an investment fund, stating they must maintain absolute neutrality like Nielsen.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:56 Pressing on proprietary data financing

Latka refuses to drop his financing thesis when Dezarellis is confused, rephrasing and pressing the comparison to CircleUp's CPG fund model.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:26 Correcting research team on funding figures

Dezarellis politely corrects Latka's incorrect multi-million funding estimates, revealing the product was largely funded by reinvested agency profits rather than venture debt.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:04 Instant NDR conversion from churn metrics

Latka instantly computes and validates the unit economics, converting the founder's raw churn numbers into standard cohort expansion and net dollar retention benchmarks.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Convert Group's Origins and Consultancy Divestment 5212 Latka guides the founder through the backstory of transitioning from a service business to SaaS. Dezarellis cooperatively explains the sale of the consulting arm to EY for 1x revenue to fully fund the SaaS venture.
Revenue Growth Trajectory and Fundraising Plans 5524 Latka challenges Dezarellis with conflicting fundraising figures gathered by his research team. Dezarellis clarifies that the agency was bootstrapped from profits and only 1.2M euros was raised for the SaaS entity at a 6M pre-money valuation.
Enterprise Customer Acquisition and Marketplace Dynamics 7413 Latka demonstrates strong SaaS domain expertise by immediately translating Dezarellis's negative churn numbers into a 105% net dollar retention rate. Dezarellis explains their two-sided data marketplace dynamic where onboarding retailer data is the true operational bottleneck.
Data Neutrality Vision and Company Capitalization 6535 Latka repeatedly suggests monetizing unique data sets via an internal debt/credit fund akin to CircleUp. Dezarellis dismisses the premise, arguing Convert Group must remain neutral like Nielsen and Switzerland to maintain brand trust.
Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion 5111 Standard Famous Five sequence characterized by friendly banter about sleeping four hours a night and drinking beer late in Greece, followed by Latka's rapid-fire executive summary of the business metrics.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dezarellis: Convert Group Consultancy Reached About €2M in Annual Revenue
“We reached about two million euros in annual revenues.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 1:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dezarellis: Deloitte and EY Both Bid to Buy Convert Group's Consultancy
“Both Deloitte and EY bid to buy our consultancy.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 2:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dezarellis: Convert Group Sold Services Arm at ~1x Revenue Valuation
“Well, it's about the one times the revenues, you know, since we are in, in in services or something like that.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 2:50
Disclosure
Dezarellis: Convert Group raised €1.2M two years ago for SaaS product
“We've raised about one, two, we've raised one, two, 1.2 million euros about two years ago.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 3:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dezarellis: Convert Group doubled ARR from €800k to €1.6M in 2021
“Well last year we were about double of that, 800. And this year, again, we are double of that. So every year we go you know, double times our ARR.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 5:17
Disclosure
Dezarellis: Convert Group is raising €3M now and €6M Series A next year
“That's three million euros now and about six million euros in a series A next year. That's your plan.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 5:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Convert Group Secures 15 of Top 20 FMCG Multinationals at €20k ACV
“We have 15 of the 20 biggest multinationals in fast-moving consumer goods and consumer healthcare, and they give us contracts of about, it's enterprise contracts, about 20,000 euros per year on average.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 6:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Convert Group has around 78 to 79 total customers
“We have about 78 customers, 79 customers.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 6:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Convert Group reports 2.5% annual logo churn and -5% net churn
“We have 2.5 churn monthly or annually. This is annually. And talking about logo churn, because if we, if I tell you about our you know, our net churn and money, we are minus five percent.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 7:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Convert Group grew with zero sales or marketing staff until 2021
“We didn't have any marketing department and we didn't have any salespeople. It was happening organic up to today.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 8:23
Insight
Dezarellis: Securing retailer data access is harder than selling to CPG brands
“The difficult part for our salespeople is to convince the retailers. So go around to Carrefour, Ajo, Deleuze, or, you know, PillPack, if it was, if they were interested to give us data, and convince them to give us access to their systems. Because what we do, …”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 10:37
Assertion Supported
Dezarellis: Athens engineers cost half to a quarter of European rates
“And we can get them half the price that someone can get them in the rest of the Europe or a quarter of the price.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 13:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Dezarellis: Senior engineers in Greece make at most €60,000 annually
“Well, that would be, you know, about 60,000 euros maximum per year.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 13:18
Disclosure
Dezarellis: Convert Group co-founders own 60% equity combined
“Well, me and my partner, Elena, it's two of us, we have 60%. So 30% me and 30% Elena.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 13:34
Disclosure
Dezarellis: Unifund owns 17% of Convert Group following €1.2M investment
“And we have one fund called Unifund that invested in us at 1.2 million. They have 17%.”
Pan Dezarellis Jul 15, 2021 ▶ 13:44
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more