Dec 20, 2017 · 32m · saastr
How the Relationship Changes Between CEO and VP Sales After Funding
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Dynamic Signal CEO Russ Fraden and VP of Sales Scott Schnarz outline how executive relationships, sales team structures, and growth strategies evolve across Series A, B, and C funding stages. They share practical insights on founder-led selling, hiring autonomous sales talent, driving net retention, and maintaining transparent executive communication.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. How this is scored →
Jason as informed peer 0.0 Guest teaching 0.0 Guest disagreement 0.3 Jason pushing back 0.0
speaking balance: gold is Jason, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 28:40 Direct Reality Check on Candidate Quality
Russ bluntly pushes back against founder illusions, stating that early-stage startups who struggle to hire often offer too little traction to attract non-mediocre talent.
Hardest push from Jason ▶ 13:00 Pushback Against False 10X Growth NarrativesRuss challenges mainstream venture narratives that prioritize top-line growth at all costs, arguing that many high-flying SaaS companies are hollow.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:28 Customer Diligence Horror StoryScott recounts discovering that seven out of eight customers wanted out of their contracts upon joining an early-stage startup, demonstrating the necessity of full diligence.
Jason holds their own ▶ 24:40 Establishing Fundamental Company PrioritiesRuss clarifies executive role clarity by asserting that until post-Series B, the only two genuine functions that matter are selling and coding.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Jason as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Jason pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Series A Stage: Hands-on Selling and Customer Diligence | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Russ and Scott present a collaborative breakdown of Series A sales expectations, noting that founders must personally sell and diligently interview every customer. | |
| Series B Stage: Hiring Profiles and Designing Compensation | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | The speakers discuss shifting into Series B hiring, emphasizing driven reps who build their own collateral over big-company resume hires and aligning comp plans to upfront cash. | |
| Sustainable Growth, Net Retention, and Investor Expectations | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | Russ delivers an extended critique of hyper-growth SaaS companies that collapse due to lack of actual product usage, urging sustainable growth over unrealistic 10x board targets. | |
| Series C Stage: Management Layers and International Expansion | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Russ and Scott outline Series C organizational scaling, dealing with middle management costs, visiting average customers, and sizing international expansion. | |
| Q&A: Establishing Transparency and Daily Executive Rhythms | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | An audience member asks about CEO-to-VP transparency; Russ and Scott detail their open communication channels and daily afternoon check-in rituals. | |
| Q&A: Defining CEO and VP Sales Functional Boundaries | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Responding to an inquiry on role boundaries, Russ emphasizes that coding and selling are everyone's job, while Scott manages comp and pipeline administration. | |
| Q&A: Introducing Sales Management and Span of Control | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | Russ gives frank, direct advice to an audience founder who struggled with their first sales hire, pointing out that early-stage startups often struggle to attract elite talent if they lack real traction. | |
| Q&A: Recommended Sales Literature and Pitch Preparation | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Scott answers a request for reading recommendations by recommending Pitch Anything, Cialdini, and Shadow Divers to underline pitch preparation rigor. |
Statements from this episode (14)
Fraden: Early-stage enterprise SaaS CEOs must be primary product sellers
“If you're not one of the primary sellers for your company's product in the early days, to me you have no business starting and running the company”
Fraden: Free enterprise pilots and logos mean nothing for early startups
“And they'll show me all these cool logos and all these great pilots they have going on. They've given away for free. And I tend to think those don't mean anything.”
Fraden: Series B CEOs should still spend half their time with customers
“And to me, when you get into your B, it's still important as a CEO to spend half your time with your customers, with your existing customers, with your prospects.”
Schnaars: Series B Startups Should Avoid Long-Tenured Big-Company Sales Reps
“You can't just bring on that person that's been at Salesforce for the last 15 years, and because they've done really well at Salesforce, they, you know, there's oftentimes this perception that You know, somebody else is gonna make white papers for me. They're …”
Schnaars: Sales Comp Should Incentivize Upfront Cash Over Quick MRR
“So if we can get cash up front, I'd rather pay a little bit more on that cash up front than just the fact that you got a, ah, you know, a quick deal for some quick MRR. If it's a longer term agreement, that means the customer's gonna be a lot more invested. Yo…”
Fraden: 70% of Dynamic Signal pipeline shifted from original messaging
“Today about 70% of our pipeline Has very little to do from a marketing and messaging standpoint with what we were selling customers the value 18 months ago.”
Fraden: 50% of the fastest-growing SaaS companies turned out to be garbage
“I bet if you went back over the last five years and looked at the top three or four companies in each of those five years that were at that point in time the fastest growing SaaS companies in history, I bet a solid 50% of those companies turned out to be garba…”
Fraden: SaaS startups are better off growing slower to ensure high LTV
“You're much better off Growing a little slower if you're going to actually ensure that you have very high LTV.”
Fraden: Average Customers Reveal More About Flaws Than Top Accounts
“If you're not spending your time with your average customer and figuring out, you know, why is this particular customer nowhere near as big as this other bank I mentioned earlier? It's, on paper, it's the same size. Why isn't that really happening, and what ar…”
Fraden: CEOs should fire executives who block direct communication with subordinates
“It's very important to have the relationship with anybody who reports to you that there's no issue with you having one-on-one conversations with folks that work for them on their team. And if you have insecure leaders that are worried about people under them t…”
Fraden: Enterprise SaaS CEOs must daily track closed sales and customer satisfaction
“And by the way, if you're an enterprise SaaS CEO who doesn't spend part of your day thinking about what new sales came in, and does it, is anybody angry with you that day, you're doing a bad job. That, other than the early building days.”
Fraden: Selling And Coding Are The Only Startup Jobs Before Series B
“I, to me, I feel very strongly that until you've well past raising a Series B, really the only two jobs in the company are selling and coding.”
Fraden: Sales VPs Must Personally Close Enterprise Deals Under $200M ARR
“At any company under a couple hundred million in ARR, your VP of sales should be someone you're very proud to fly in to meet with the CIO of Nestle to help close the deal. And if they don't want to do that, they're a bad fit.”