Apr 15, 2019 · 1h 3m · how-i-built-this
Men's Wearhouse: George Zimmer
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
In this episode of 'How I Built This,' George Zimmer recounts building Men's Wearhouse from a single Houston storefront into a multi-billion-dollar menswear giant, navigating an agonizing boardroom ouster, and finding entrepreneurial reinvention through Generation Tux.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 32.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Guy as informed peer 4.1 Guest teaching 2.6 Guest disagreement 1.7 Guy pushing back 1.8
speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 47:45 Zimmer rejects victimhood and emotional hurt
Zimmer forcefully resists Raz's framing that he must have been deeply hurt by his ouster, asserting that he rejects feeling like a victim and only withholds friendship as a boundary.
Hardest push from Guy ▶ 47:35 Raz presses Zimmer on taking board betrayal personallyRaz refuses to accept Zimmer's claims of emotional detachment, explicitly challenging him that cutting off every single former board member proves he took the betrayal personally.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 33:30 Zimmer teaches retail psychology of 'shirt stacking'Zimmer educates Raz on male shopper psychology, explaining that men dread retail shopping like dental visits, which made proactive 'shirt stacking' a revolutionary revenue driver.
Guy holds their own ▶ 0:49 Raz analyzes retail fashion margins and positioningRaz lays out a comprehensive breakdown of luxury versus low-end retail fashion unit economics, setting up the exact industry gap Zimmer identified.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Guy as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Guy pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Prologue: Ousted from the Empire He Built | 6 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Raz opens with an extended solo monologue dissecting fashion retail pricing tiers (luxury, discount, middle value) and outlining Zimmer's core retail thesis. Zimmer appears only in a brief introductory hook describing his furniture being packed into storage. Because most of the segment is Raz setting the historical and industry context, host expertise is prominent while interaction remains minimal. | |
| Early Life: Maternal Confidence and Father's Clothing Business | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Raz explores Zimmer's upbringing, his mother's role in building his unshakeable self-confidence, and his father's apparel business. Zimmer shares personal anecdotes, including the notable detail that John F. Kennedy Jr. wore his father's raincoat at JFK's funeral. The dynamic is cooperative and reflective. | |
| Sourcing in Asia and Campaign Organizing | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Zimmer recounts traveling to Asia in 1971 as a 23-year-old on a manufacturing scouting mission for his father, and later working in grassroots fundraising on George McGovern's presidential campaign. Raz gently probes his qualifications and the logistics of the trip. Zimmer straightforwardly narrates his early learning curve. | |
| Texas Sales Territory and the Genesis of Men's Wearhouse | 4 | 3 | 2 | 3 | Raz presses Zimmer on how losing a single department store account (Foley's) rapidly led to the decision to open Men's Wearhouse. Zimmer explains his critique of southern apparel retailing, his anti-capitalist youth mindset, and the economic differences between Dallas and Houston. Zimmer reframes Raz's assumptions about his retail expertise by admitting Houston's booming growth covered for his early ignorance. | |
| Opening the First Houston Store and Surviving Early Losses | 4 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Raz questions why Zimmer would expand to second and third stores in Houston after losing money in the first two years. Zimmer educates Raz on the economics of major urban markets, noting that marketing costs require multiple locations to achieve efficiency. The exchange is collegial and clarifying. | |
| White-Label Negotiations and Expansion into California | 4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Zimmer shares the foundational story of winning a white-label deal for Nino Cerruti suits via a pickup basketball game, which allowed Men's Wearhouse to undercut competitors by $100. He also explains the opportunistic shift to expand into the Bay Area instead of Dallas after spotting massive regional price discrepancies. Raz follows along closely and synthesizes the business logic. | |
| Texas Banking Crisis and the Everyday Low Price Pivot | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Facing bank loan recalls amid the Texas banking crisis, Zimmer pivoted away from constant promotional sales to an everyday low price model. Raz characterizes the decision as a Hail Mary, which Zimmer partially concedes while noting his conviction that consumers were tired of fake promotional pricing. Zimmer firmly explains how promotional discounting undermined profitability. | |
| Becoming the Commercial Icon and Perfecting Shirt Stacking | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Raz wonders why competitors did not undercut Men's Wearhouse's open secret of white-labeling. Zimmer explains their proprietary sales innovation called 'shirt stacking' based on male psychology, likening clothing shopping for men to visiting the dentist. He also details how ad-libbing 'I guarantee it' created both an external brand and strong internal company morale. | |
| Going Public and the Nationwide Tuxedo Expansion | 5 | 2 | 1 | 2 | Raz brings specific financial data, questioning why the 1992 IPO raised only $13 million, and Zimmer clarifies the strategy of subsequent secondary offerings. Zimmer describes rolling out tuxedo rentals despite intense pushback from internal staff. The exchange highlights Men's Wearhouse capturing twenty percent of the U.S. suit market. | |
| Leadership Transition to Doug Ewer and Boardroom Friction | 5 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Raz performs a 'reality check' on whether Zimmer truly stepped back after appointing Doug Ewer as CEO in 2011. Zimmer insists he did not micromanage day-to-day operations and explains the strategic split over selling K&G, detailing its role in protecting gross profit margins and preventing competitor entry. Zimmer educates Raz on the retail strategy behind holding low-price divisions. | |
| The Dramatic Boardroom Coup and Abrupt Termination | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | Zimmer describes the painful June 2013 board meeting where he was unanimously removed as executive chairman, including Deepak Chopra's late-night meditation session in his hotel room. He expresses disbelief that friends he had helped for decades turned against him and packed his 40 years of belongings into 50 storage cartons. Raz provides an empathetic sounding board for the narrative. | |
| Grappling with Betrayal, Identity, and Rejecting Victimhood | 4 | 2 | 6 | 7 | Raz repeatedly challenges Zimmer's assertion that he did not feel personally hurt or devastated by being fired from the company that formed his entire identity. When Raz insists that cutting off all board members proves he took it personally, Zimmer explicitly rejects the victim mentality and explains his boundaries as withholding friendship rather than feeling hurt. This represents the tensest psychological sparring in the interview. | |
| Launching Generation Tux Amid Corporate Rivalry | 4 | 3 | 3 | 1 | Zimmer details his post-ouster moves, including trying to retire for four months before launching Generation Tux. He recounts corporate rivalry battles with Men's Wearhouse, accusing them of blocking his attempt to buy K&G with non-solicitation clauses and poaching his Macy's tuxedo partnership during legal review. Raz listens intently as Zimmer details the competitive maneuvering. | |
| Philosophies on Capitalism, Luck, and the Iconic Guarantee | 4 | 2 | 1 | 1 | Raz asks Zimmer about feeling vindicated over Men's Wearhouse's struggles following the Joseph A. Bank acquisition and asks him to weigh skill versus luck in his success. Zimmer delivers a critique of shareholder capitalism, arguing it needs modification to be sustainable, and recites his iconic catchphrase for Raz. The segment wraps up warmly. | |
| 'How You Built That': Rahim Diallo and Ginjan | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | In the recurring 'How You Built That' segment, Raz interviews Rahim Diallo about founding Ginjan, an organic ginger-pineapple beverage brand inspired by West African recipes. Diallo explains navigating immigration detention, college, recipe testing in Harlem, and leveraging distributor relationships to enter Whole Foods. The tone is inspiring and purely collaborative. |
Statements from this episode (15)
George Zimmer's father made the raincoat JFK Jr. wore at JFK's funeral
“And when John John Kennedy was standing at his father's funeral in that famous photo where he salutes, he's wearing my father's raincoat.”
Houston's rapid economic growth masked Zimmer's early ignorance of retail
“Dallas was old money, Houston was new money, so that for a young upstart like myself trying to create a business, the chances were much greater in Houston, and in fact since I didn't really know anything about the retail business when I opened Men's warehouse.…”
Zimmer sold a one-third stake in Men's Wearhouse for just $3,000
“Harry Levy had been my fraternity brother and was from Dallas, and I had called him up and said, would you like to move to Houston and do this with me? And he said, well, what's in it for me? And I said, well, I'll give you a third of the company for three gra…”
High urban marketing costs force retail chains to operate multiple locations
“The marketing expenses in a major urban area are so high you can't really run a single location. You need multiple locations.”
Zimmer secured wholesale Nino Cerruti suits by winning a basketball bet
“I beat him, and we got Nino Cerruti suits, white labeled, but at a 20% purchase discount, which enabled us to sell them moderately profitably at one 99 when everybody else in America was selling them at two 99.”
Constant promotional sales wrongly assume that American consumers are stupid
“It made no sense to me, this constant barrage of sales. It was though everybody in retail thought that the American consumer was stupid. And actually, they're not as stupid as those people thought.”
Founders acting as TV spokespeople significantly boosts internal employee morale
“When you are a spokesperson for your own business, of course you're doing it to affect the external world. You want more business. But what happens is that, and we were in a retail business with hundreds or thousands of employees, the workforce loves the fact …”
Dressing room 'shirt stacking' technique drove major retail upsell revenue
“When a man purchased a suit while he was in the dressing room, we would put together shirts, ties, belts, shoes, everything that would make the outfit really jump. Then we would present it to the customer, and we were not, in my mind, pushy, but we were Not pa…”
Men's Wearhouse expansion required $1 million in inventory per new store
“No, I mean, first of all, with the money that we got from the IPO and secondaries, we started opening 50 stores a year, or a store every week. So, if you can imagine, each store costs about a million dollars in inventory.”
Flanker brand K&G enabled Men's Wearhouse to raise gross margins 10%
“K&G provides a unique opportunity for an offensive and defensive strategy, and they didn't quite understand what that meant, and so what it means is men's warehouse stores were able to raise the gross profit percentage of By a full 10%, which is a thousand bas…”
Zimmer admits CEO replacement Doug Ewer was unqualified to lead company
“Look, I know I told you that Doug would be a good replacement, but after a couple of years, I was wrong. He's not qualified to run the company”
Zimmer offered $90 million to buy back K&G after his firing
“Because after I was fired, The first thing I tried to do was buy K&G from Men's... For ninety million dollars.”
Men's Wearhouse intercepted Generation Tux's exclusive rental deal with Macy's
“My team and I were in New York in Terry Lundgren's office, the CEO of Macy's, making a deal to be the... Tuxedo, rental, and we had the deal. It went to legal review, and while it was in legal review, men's warehouse stole it.”
Ginjan secured distribution by playing Whole Foods against a regional distributor
“We were definitely relentless in terms of pursuing them. Because we knew Whole Foods wanted us to get a distributor, and that distributor was interested in us because they know we're talking to Whole Foods, so we kind of played them against one another, and it…”