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Oct 10, 2020 · 23m · how-i-built-this

How I Built Resilience: Cynt Marshall of Dallas Mavericks

Cynt Marshall · 14m spoken Guy Raz · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Dallas Mavericks CEO Cynt Marshall details how she reformed the franchise's toxic workplace culture, established league-leading diversity standards, and navigated operational disruptions during the COVID-19 pandemic and national racial justice movements.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Guy holds 32% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Guy as informed peer 2.3 Guest teaching 2.3 Guest disagreement 0.0 Guy pushing back 0.1
05100:0010:0020:000:00–3:40 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Guy Raz's Appeal and Book Promotion Guy Raz opens with a promotional appeal and context regarding the Mavericks investigation before inviting Cynt Marshall to share how she was recruited by Mark Cuban in an agreeable exchange.3:41–7:19 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Establishing the NBA Standard for Diversity and Inclusion Marshall breaks down the distinct difference between diversity and inclusion and details her structured 100-day transformation plan while Raz asks supportive clarifying questions.7:20–10:15 · Guy as informed peer 1/10 Connecting Through Employee Stories and Accountability Huddles Marshall shares anecdotes of overcoming workplace skepticism and conducting deep one-on-one interviews, maintaining an engaging and collaborative storytelling dynamic.10:16–12:18 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Embracing Authenticity and the CRAFTS Values Raz affirms Marshall's focus on personal stories as key to building empathy, and Marshall expounds on the CRAFTS values framework.12:20–15:27 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Mid-Roll Break and Coming Up Teaser Raz asks whether players can hold owners accountable on social issues, and Marshall reframes the narrative to explain how leadership and players unite around collective action.15:27–19:12 · Guy as informed peer 3/10 Dynamic Leadership and Partnership with Mark Cuban Raz poses audience questions regarding division of authority with Cuban and navigating pandemic revenue loss, prompting detailed operational breakdowns from Marshall.19:13–22:33 · Guy as informed peer 2/10 Empowering Non-Executive Voices for DEI Marshall delivers actionable guidance on initiating DEI discussions during the double pandemic before ending on an optimistic note regarding sports recovery.0:00–3:40 · Guest teaching 1/10 Guy Raz's Appeal and Book Promotion Guy Raz opens with a promotional appeal and context regarding the Mavericks investigation before inviting Cynt Marshall to share how she was recruited by Mark Cuban in an agreeable exchange.3:41–7:19 · Guest teaching 4/10 Establishing the NBA Standard for Diversity and Inclusion Marshall breaks down the distinct difference between diversity and inclusion and details her structured 100-day transformation plan while Raz asks supportive clarifying questions.7:20–10:15 · Guest teaching 2/10 Connecting Through Employee Stories and Accountability Huddles Marshall shares anecdotes of overcoming workplace skepticism and conducting deep one-on-one interviews, maintaining an engaging and collaborative storytelling dynamic.10:16–12:18 · Guest teaching 1/10 Embracing Authenticity and the CRAFTS Values Raz affirms Marshall's focus on personal stories as key to building empathy, and Marshall expounds on the CRAFTS values framework.12:20–15:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Mid-Roll Break and Coming Up Teaser Raz asks whether players can hold owners accountable on social issues, and Marshall reframes the narrative to explain how leadership and players unite around collective action.15:27–19:12 · Guest teaching 3/10 Dynamic Leadership and Partnership with Mark Cuban Raz poses audience questions regarding division of authority with Cuban and navigating pandemic revenue loss, prompting detailed operational breakdowns from Marshall.19:13–22:33 · Guest teaching 2/10 Empowering Non-Executive Voices for DEI Marshall delivers actionable guidance on initiating DEI discussions during the double pandemic before ending on an optimistic note regarding sports recovery.0:00–3:40 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Guy Raz's Appeal and Book Promotion Guy Raz opens with a promotional appeal and context regarding the Mavericks investigation before inviting Cynt Marshall to share how she was recruited by Mark Cuban in an agreeable exchange.3:41–7:19 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Establishing the NBA Standard for Diversity and Inclusion Marshall breaks down the distinct difference between diversity and inclusion and details her structured 100-day transformation plan while Raz asks supportive clarifying questions.7:20–10:15 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Connecting Through Employee Stories and Accountability Huddles Marshall shares anecdotes of overcoming workplace skepticism and conducting deep one-on-one interviews, maintaining an engaging and collaborative storytelling dynamic.10:16–12:18 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Embracing Authenticity and the CRAFTS Values Raz affirms Marshall's focus on personal stories as key to building empathy, and Marshall expounds on the CRAFTS values framework.12:20–15:27 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Roll Break and Coming Up Teaser Raz asks whether players can hold owners accountable on social issues, and Marshall reframes the narrative to explain how leadership and players unite around collective action.15:27–19:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Dynamic Leadership and Partnership with Mark Cuban Raz poses audience questions regarding division of authority with Cuban and navigating pandemic revenue loss, prompting detailed operational breakdowns from Marshall.19:13–22:33 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Empowering Non-Executive Voices for DEI Marshall delivers actionable guidance on initiating DEI discussions during the double pandemic before ending on an optimistic note regarding sports recovery.0:00–3:40 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Guy Raz's Appeal and Book Promotion Guy Raz opens with a promotional appeal and context regarding the Mavericks investigation before inviting Cynt Marshall to share how she was recruited by Mark Cuban in an agreeable exchange.3:41–7:19 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Establishing the NBA Standard for Diversity and Inclusion Marshall breaks down the distinct difference between diversity and inclusion and details her structured 100-day transformation plan while Raz asks supportive clarifying questions.7:20–10:15 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Connecting Through Employee Stories and Accountability Huddles Marshall shares anecdotes of overcoming workplace skepticism and conducting deep one-on-one interviews, maintaining an engaging and collaborative storytelling dynamic.10:16–12:18 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Embracing Authenticity and the CRAFTS Values Raz affirms Marshall's focus on personal stories as key to building empathy, and Marshall expounds on the CRAFTS values framework.12:20–15:27 · Guy pushing back 1/10 Mid-Roll Break and Coming Up Teaser Raz asks whether players can hold owners accountable on social issues, and Marshall reframes the narrative to explain how leadership and players unite around collective action.15:27–19:12 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Dynamic Leadership and Partnership with Mark Cuban Raz poses audience questions regarding division of authority with Cuban and navigating pandemic revenue loss, prompting detailed operational breakdowns from Marshall.19:13–22:33 · Guy pushing back 0/10 Empowering Non-Executive Voices for DEI Marshall delivers actionable guidance on initiating DEI discussions during the double pandemic before ending on an optimistic note regarding sports recovery.

speaking balance: gold is Guy, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Guy 70% · guest 30%0:00 · Guy 70% · guest 30%3:00 · Guy 25.8% · guest 74.2%3:00 · Guy 25.8% · guest 74.2%6:00 · Guy 9.2% · guest 90.8%6:00 · Guy 9.2% · guest 90.8%9:00 · Guy 21.5% · guest 78.5%9:00 · Guy 21.5% · guest 78.5%12:00 · Guy 34.4% · guest 65.6%12:00 · Guy 34.4% · guest 65.6%15:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%15:00 · Guy 33.1% · guest 66.9%18:00 · Guy 9.7% · guest 90.3%18:00 · Guy 9.7% · guest 90.3%21:00 · Guy 58.7% · guest 41.3%21:00 · Guy 58.7% · guest 41.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:22 Reframing player vs owner conflict

In a very collegial episode, this mild divergence occurred when Marshall reframed Raz's prompt about players holding owners accountable into a cooperative initiative called Mavs Take Action.

 Hardest push from Guy ▶ 13:00 Pressing on athlete-owner value misalignment

Raz directly challenges Marshall to address the friction between predominantly Black athlete rosters and team owners with divergent public views.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:50 Distinguishing diversity, inclusion, and equity

Marshall educates Raz on the precise distinctions between demographic representation (diversity) and building an equitable, belonging workplace culture (inclusion).

 Guy holds their own ▶ 10:15 Synthesizing empathy and organizational storytelling

Raz draws upon his core podcast philosophy to offer an insightful analysis of why narrative vulnerability creates foundational empathy across workplace hierarchies.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicGuy as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementGuy pushing backWhy
Guy Raz's Appeal and Book Promotion 2100 Guy Raz opens with a promotional appeal and context regarding the Mavericks investigation before inviting Cynt Marshall to share how she was recruited by Mark Cuban in an agreeable exchange.
Establishing the NBA Standard for Diversity and Inclusion 2400 Marshall breaks down the distinct difference between diversity and inclusion and details her structured 100-day transformation plan while Raz asks supportive clarifying questions.
Connecting Through Employee Stories and Accountability Huddles 1200 Marshall shares anecdotes of overcoming workplace skepticism and conducting deep one-on-one interviews, maintaining an engaging and collaborative storytelling dynamic.
Embracing Authenticity and the CRAFTS Values 3100 Raz affirms Marshall's focus on personal stories as key to building empathy, and Marshall expounds on the CRAFTS values framework.
Mid-Roll Break and Coming Up Teaser 3301 Raz asks whether players can hold owners accountable on social issues, and Marshall reframes the narrative to explain how leadership and players unite around collective action.
Dynamic Leadership and Partnership with Mark Cuban 3300 Raz poses audience questions regarding division of authority with Cuban and navigating pandemic revenue loss, prompting detailed operational breakdowns from Marshall.
Empowering Non-Executive Voices for DEI 2200 Marshall delivers actionable guidance on initiating DEI discussions during the double pandemic before ending on an optimistic note regarding sports recovery.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Supported
Marshall thought Cuban's job offer text was her kids asking for money
“And then on February 21st, 2018, I started getting all these text messages. And actually, I thought it was one of my kids. I have four kids, so I thought it was one of my kids looking for money. So I handed my husband the phone and said, one of the kids need m…”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 2:06
Assertion Supported
Marshall: Dallas Mavericks leadership is now almost 50% women and 47% POC
“And so now we have almost 50% women in leadership and 47% people of color.”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 4:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Marshall: Mark Cuban gave full authority to overhaul Dallas Mavericks leadership
“Oh, I was definitely supported by Mark. I mean, he wanted to see some changes. He did give me free reign to make the leadership changes that needed to be made. Some people didn't think that was going to happen. And he said, no, do what you need to do.”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 5:54
Assertion Supported
Marshall: The Mavericks' 100-day turnaround plan centered on four key pillars
“I put together a 100 day plan. And it was a 100 day plan that had four main pieces to it. The first piece was to model zero tolerance, complete an investigation and to really let people know that we have zero tolerance. For sexism, for racism, for sexual haras…”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 6:08
Insight
Marshall: Institutionalizing new culture while purging the old is the hardest part
“I think the hardest part is to try to institutionalize a new culture while you're purging the old culture.”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 7:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
A Mavericks manager told their team Marshall would not last 90 days
“I had one situation where somebody actually told their whole team, don't respond to her. Don't do anything she's asking to be done because she won't be here in 90 days.”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 7:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Marshall held one-on-ones with every single Dallas Mavericks employee
“I had one-on-ones with every single employee in the organization.”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 8:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Some Mavericks season ticket holders demanded refunds over social justice stances
“We've had some season ticket holders who have called and asked for a refund because of our stand on some issues”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 14:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Most Mavericks fans declined refunds for games cancelled by COVID-19
“We had eight home games that we missed at the end of the season because we shut down. And so we had to, fortunately for us, most of our fans Didn't ask for a refund. Most of them said either carry it on, give me a credit into next season, and let's see what ha…”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 18:33
Insight
Employees must proactively initiate diversity discussions if leadership fails to do so
“Somebody has to be bold enough to step up and to talk to their leaders if they're not doing it. I mean, hopefully you have leaders who are, but if they're not doing it, somebody has to say, we need to talk about this.”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 19:41
Disclosure
The Mavericks dedicated a week of leadership meetings to racial injustice
“When the George Floyd thing happened, some of our African American men said, somebody call sent. We need to talk like today. And so we talked for three hours that Friday night. And then that Monday, my leadership team called turned into a whole conversation ar…”
Cynt Marshall Oct 10, 2020 ▶ 20:15
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