The Exchanges

Q Before we jump into the future about why you're running and what you, what you see for the country, talk about the years that you spent in Congress. What did you observe there? What, what is it like day to day, and what do you think is working and what isn't working?

A I wish we had three hours. I get there, Chamath, I get there the first week of 2019. And like all of you that come from organizational and enterprise experience, I assume that Nancy Pelosi and Kevin McCarthy would have a, have a strategy to introduce the new members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans, you know, get to know each other, do a ropes course, you know, and build some trust or something. And my goodness, it was just the opposite, guys. We were put on separate buses going to different events. And I realized right away that they had a systemic segregation strategy on day one. You mean the two parties? The two parties. This is, I'll tell you, what I've learned, and we talk more about this, the only people that want to protect the status quo of the duopoly and the political industrial complex that just surrounds it all are the two parties. And it is destructive, and I will get into that. But I recognize right away, all of my colleagues, that the leadership in both, uh, Democratic and Republican side They wanted to keep us separate. They did not want to give us education and information, and they wanted to keep us so busy that we could not become threats to their power structure. You can, you can imagine members of Congress tend to be pretty ambitious people, and ultimately they were smart to do that because, uh, they made members of Congress, they do to this day,…

AI assessment note: “We were put on separate buses going to different events.”

Q Did you guys sign him to a deal and pay him money or?

A No, no. In fact, we talked about that and the core, so this is the brand foundation of the brand house was authenticity. We didn't do a damn thing that had anything to do with anything that wasn't true. The makers of it, the, Uh, the product itself. We didn't, we didn't pay people to talk about it, unlike Sidney Frank with Grey Goose. So we chose not to, uh, it was all natural. And then here's the other cool thing, and this is how my campaign's going to work. We sent 200 bottles in very special, beautiful boxes to 200 influencers. We, we believe that if we could simply seed the brand with 200 people all around the US, that they could be the content makers and the advocates, the ambassadors. In fact, One of them went to this guy right behind me, Bill Clinton. And Robert De Niro, another example, Robert Redford, you know, you know, leaders of industry and actors and, and, uh, and the like. Robert De Niro gets one of these things, and there's a note inside with a picture of the distiller, Bogdan Zielinski. It said, watch page three, the Tiffany section, I'm sorry, the Tiffany location of the Wall Street Journal on, call it, it was like Monday, February sixth. Only 200 people knew What was coming? The ad in the paper didn't show a bottle of anything. It just said Belvedere. Bogdan wants to know how you like it. So we literally did an ad that cost, gosh knows back then, probably a 1…

AI assessment note: “No, no. In fact, we talked about that”

Q Dean, be specific. Like, do you think that it was because again, this is a bit of a premortem, so it's a bit early, but if it, if it continues down this path, is it, is that they started to cater to a minority A very loud, but ultimately, um, people that were just out of touch with the rest of America? Yeah.

A No, you know what? You know what I think, Chamath? I think, I think the real, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna lay this all at the feet of the party, if you will. You know, it's, it's people who have considered themselves Democrats, uh, for many, for decades, uh, who don't vote in primaries, who don't participate, who don't offer their own names as candidates. So it's not so much that the party is catering to, it's that the party is increasingly represented by, and I don't want to condemn. Look, we live in America. Everybody has different opinions, perspectives, and I respect those, but there's no question the Democratic Party is increasingly represented in elected office by people who are pretty far left of the mainstream. The Republican Party probably is actually closer to the mainstream in America. I do not believe Donald Trump is. Uh, his character, and otherwise we don't have to get into it, but I think that's the big problem. The party is increasingly represented by people who are quite different.

AI assessment note: “So it's not so much that the party is catering to, it's that”

Q How so? Explain it to us, like, what you have to do.

A So the reason I started in New Hampshire is it has a hundred and three-year-old tradition of being the first in the nation primary. They take this Really seriously. They're the most engaged Americans in the country. They have a process. They, you know, we walk through the snow, we answer their questions, and you also, all you need is a thousand dollar check, you gotta be 35 years old, you gotta be born in the United States of America, and you too can become a candidate for President of the United States. That's what I did. They have the most beautiful ritual in the State House in Concord, New Hampshire that is worth going to one time just to see the majesty Of filing for president of the United States. So there are 21 of us on the Democratic side of the ballot because that's how it should be. Take, take a state like Virginia.

AI assessment note: “all you need is a thousand dollar check, you gotta be 35 years old”

Q Sachs, anything else on foreign policy you want to go to?

A Hacking AFNOW would be, I think, a shameful, horrible mistake. The one thing I would argue right now, David, is those who are most likely going to be subject to Putin's terror, the countries in Europe, should be carrying a much bigger, bigger part of this load. You know, we have 750 bases and installations around the world in 80 countries. We are the most dominant presence in world history of any government. And we spend more on our military than the next, I think, 11 nations combined, for God's sakes, you know, and, and if anyone thinks that a kinetic risk to the United States is the most likely harm that will be done us, not cyber or not social or not biological, I think you're out of your mind. Those are the risks that I think are most threatening, that I think this president does not quite understand, and we have to re-comprise and re-commit to diplomacy and defending ourselves against the most important Literal risks, including nuclear weapons that can be carried in a backpack and detonated in New York or Tel Aviv or anywhere in the world. And if we don't start changing how we do things, we're not going to be ready, and we are just sitting still in dysfunction.

AI assessment note: “The one thing I would argue right now, David, is those who are most”

Q Let's start there, Dean. What, give us the assessment of what's happening in the White House right now. Before we talk about your candidacy, just like, what's going on?

A Well, let me just say I respect President Biden. I, he's a man I've had in my house, uh, for an event. He's a man with whom I've flown on Air Force One twice. He did a beautiful video for my daughter. He called my mother. Um, I think he did a fine job. I think he was the only man that could have defeated Donald Trump in 2020. And I have to say, I think it's fair to say too, uh, he's probably the only Democrat who could and will lose to Donald Trump in 2024. He's a human being. Uh, he's now in his eighties. Uh, he is clearly, um, on the decline. He's not incompetent. I believe he's surrounded himself by competent, able, principled people, and I believe the White House is running as a team, as most do. Uh, but do I think that he will be in a position to continue leading this country in the future? I do not. I think I'm joined by about 75% of the country, of the country, in saying that. I also believe the policies that we pass, for the most part, Our investments for the future in infrastructure. The CHIPS Act, I think is a very important bill, which by the way has national security implications, as you guys know. The Inflation Reduction Act, a bizarre name for a bill that's really a energy and climate bill, I think is, is pretty good legislation. And I think he reconstituted our allies around the world that had been frayed to a point of great danger during the Trump administration…

AI assessment note: “I believe the White House is running as a team, as most do.”

Q Would you put a minimum age on use of social networks? You have kids. Would you make it 1516 years old?

A I think it would be healthier. Look, we, we have minimum age for alcohol. That's, you know, that's older than you have to be to fight in a war, for God's sakes. It's ridiculous. You know, cannabis is, cannabis is still banned at the federal, the hypocrisy of the federal government is also what I'm running against right now. So Jason, I think that is a good idea. You know this, and I've had daughters that grew up in the social media era. It is one of the most destructive, it is far, it is as destructive as I think drug consumption to adolescent health as anything else. So to answer your question, I think that's A, perfectly legal, B, perfectly reasonable, and you can't just entrust parents to do it because Johnny's parents will allow him to have the phone and the apps, you know, and Jill's won't, and he can't, there has to be. I think there has to be. We do that for a lot of other things, and I think we should talk about at what age any of this is reasonable, but absolutely, I think that's not unreasonable. I want kids to be safe just like you guys, and so does everybody.

AI assessment note: “So to answer your question, I think that's A, perfectly legal, B, perfectly reasonable”

Q listen, you didn't get a fair shake. And when they did swap out, um, Biden, they didn't even let you run and do a speed run primary. And that to me, um, was the most infuriating part of all this. I felt like you should have been given a shot and it should have been a speed run primary. How are you feeling right now at this moment in time?

A Well, you know, it's a combination. First of all, good to see you guys, and, and I want to say thank you, by the way. Uh, I can't tell you how many people, not just in the U.S., but around the world, said that they were introduced to me, uh, not from MSNBC or any of the networks, but by you guys, and I just want to acknowledge that and let you know how meaningful, um, all of you are to the country and to me. With that said, you can imagine, I'm in, I'm incredulous, J. Cal, I, You know, this was predictable. I don't think she's gonna win tonight. Um, this is what happens when a country that is predicated on competition, um, goes with, well, in this case, a party goes with selection instead of election. And I was simply calling for competition. Uh, you guys know it very well. Uh, people want winners. They want people to duke it out. They want people to win with ideas. They want battle tested. They don't like anointments. They don't like coronations. I know that, you know that, the country knows that, and I just can't believe that the party, uh, that I've been, uh, loyal to, and, uh, member of, and fought for, uh, would be so blind to reality, and that's how I feel right now.

AI assessment note: “I'm incredulous, J. Cal, I, You know, this was predictable.”

Q What has been the blowback in the Democratic Party from your declaring?

A What do you think? I'm not being thrown flowers in parties, let me tell you that. Guys, I'll tell you, I, I, I, I think most would consider me an affable, friendly, well-liked member of Congress. I know that. That's my, that's my ethos. Uh, my friends are still my friends. I think they're disappointed because this is not what you do when you're a member of a party. You fall in line, you shush up, you sit down, you get in line, and you do nothing to upset the apple cart of others who've been waiting in line perhaps a little longer than you. So you can imagine, uh, the pushback has been strong, the arrows sharp, Uh, and the pain quite significant, but nothing compared to the pain that Americans are feeling right now, and that's why I'm doing this. And I should also let you know, I had no intention of doing this. A year ago, I was on a radio show and a host asked me if I thought the president should run again. And I said, of course not. He implicitly, if not explicitly said he'd be a transitional president, kind of the bridge. Most members of Congress thought he was going to stand down. That's why, that's why Newsom and Pritzker and, uh, uh, Whitmer and so many others were kind of making their plans. And I said, and if he doesn't pass the torch, then we should ensure that at least that the stage has newer generation candidates to Give voters a choice. Anyway, months went by. I sta…

AI assessment note: “the pushback has been strong, the arrows sharp, Uh, and the pain quite significant”

Q problem? I guess the question for you is what is causing structurally the spending problem? A lot of people have said that this is late stage empire, the failure of democracy because everyone votes themselves all the money eventually, or is it a politically oriented problem where folks don't want to address the biggest line items? They don't want to hold programs to account. And what is the answer here?

A So to answer your question directly, you ask what the cause is. It's incompetency and perverse incentives. Period. There is no political, there used to be a political reward for conservatives who were focused on fiscal responsibility, because they would win elections over tax and spenders. But that party is long gone. Long gone. There's no reward. That's why Trump added seven trillion dollars to the deficit. And that's why Biden will probably end, you know, add about that much as well. So, uh, by the way, I, I think I'm one of the only Democrats who has both has been named by the committee for a responsible federal budget, uh, one of their fiscal heroes as a Democrat. And also, um, I'm a Hamilton Hamilton, I'm sorry, Hamilton Jefferson award winner by the U S chamber of commerce. And I'm also pro worker. I, I, this notion that you can't be by the way, pro business and pro worker, That they're somehow mutually exclusive. Uh, that's BS. They're, they're mutually mandatory. But back to your question, 30 through trillion in debt, by the way, our economy can accommodate more. That's the sad truth. The issue is our debt service, and nobody's talking about the fact that it is going to go from the mid four hundred billion a year to, to your point, Dave, with the higher interest rates, probably approaching a trillion, maybe 840.

AI assessment note: “It's incompetency and perverse incentives. Period. There is no political”

Q Last thing, and just, just yes or no. Can everybody expect that you will be on the ballot in every state?

A I can't say I'm going to be in the ballot in every state, Chamath, because I don't think it's possible. Between time and money, I'm going to have to make some choices, and that's just the sickening truth. I will, I want to salute Bernie Sanders. He actually made it possible for a candidate like me and probably future candidates who are subject to this nauseating system to actually still compete and get to the convention and maybe win because he depowered people like me, members of Congress that used to have outsized Uh, votes, uh, disproportionately so versus voters, and I celebrate him because he was right. I used to think he was a sore loser. Bernie Sanders was absolutely right about a rigged system that is keeping people out of the process, keeping candidates out of the process, and keeping debate out of the process. So I'm going to be in the most, I'm going to be on most ballots. Uh, I've got to raise money, and frankly, I, I hate to be shameless, but the truth is, if we want to get on ballots, I need support, and it's easy. Dean 24 dot com, Uh, you know, I, I, by the way, I'm at 15% in New Hampshire after just two weeks. We thought it would take six if we were lucky.

AI assessment note: “I can't say I'm going to be in the ballot in every state”

Q If you can, tell us about that. What is it like to negotiate against LVMH and Bernard Arnault? And what, why do you sell it when it's working? I guess maybe it's a question.

A You know, I'll tell you, well, this is not a story I've shared with many. Um, they were very disingenuous. And, uh, it, it deeply troubles me to this day. Uh, the way that my father was treated, uh, the promises that were made simply to get a deal done and then not kept, um, I think is a reflection on principle, and I'll leave it at that. Um, a lesson learned. Uh, in fact, rather than going through a competitive process, which I think any enterprise would do to maximize value of a brand, uh, our family ethos was a little different. And, um, and I think we bit And in hindsight, it was a mistake. Um, but I'll leave it at that. You learn less, you know what, you learn lessons every experience to this very day. I'm learning them every day on the campaign trail too. Uh, that was one I would never make again.

AI assessment note: “they were very disingenuous. And, uh, it, it deeply troubles me to this day.”

Q Can you actually talk about the border? Tell us what, what would you do there?

A Once again, I've got a lot of colleagues who make their decisions by reading an article, seeing a tweet, or seeing a TikTok. Uh, I go, you know, I've been to Israel and the Middle East twice, just in the last number of months, I've been to the Southern border twice. I've seen with my own eyes. It is the most despicable, embarrassing failure of American policy I have ever seen. Uh, I have seen women walking across the Rio Grande with babies in their arms who have spent six or 7000 dollars, their whole life savings paid to, uh, gangs and coyotes to bring them across the border. I've seen the extraordinary beauty And grace with which Border Patrol agents have looked after these people. I've seen babies who were abandoned. That were on 24 hour care of Border Patrol agents who took as good a care of these little kids as, as they would their own. I saw people in cages. I saw the most archaic, out of date, inefficient, ineffective ports of entry. I saw lines of, of, of, uh, trailer trucks, probably two, three miles long idling in the hot, hot weather waiting to get across. I saw a mile long of human beings Waiting to come into the country to do their shopping or their job or their education. And it was horrifying. And if we think, by the way, we need much better border security, barriers, technologies, uh, and facilities. And by the way, we also need it at the northern border. I'm a b…

AI assessment note: “we need much better border security, barriers, technologies, uh, and facilities.”

Q I know we're going to talk about spending in a second, but just before we get away from foreign policy, I think it's important that we ask, what would be your goals with respect to conflict in the Middle East? What's the strategy you'd employ to achieve those goals, and who are the people that you'd surround yourself with?

A Well, I'll tell you, you know, my strategy is quite simple. It's peace around the world and it's prosperity at home, uh, plain and simple, and, and I can build, I can put the legs of that stool together for you, uh, as quickly as I possibly can, but let, let's talk about the Middle East. You know, I'm 54 years old. President Biden has been in the U.S. Senate or in the White House for 50 years. Uh, none of us on this podcast have lived through anything but bloodshed, Uh, reciprocal misery between Palestinians and Israelis. This cycle has continued for decades. I've had enough. I cannot stand the sight, uh, of, of babies being pulled from the, the wombs of mothers by Hamas in Israel any more than I can watch babies being destroyed by bombs and missiles in Gaza, and it's gotta stop. Uh, I am about to issue a statement to that end, uh, that says essentially, uh, Hamas must release all of its hostages, period, of which there are nine Americans, guys. Nine Americans are being held in Gaza by a terrorist organization, and as president, I would be making that my, not my daily, uh, desire or request, my daily demand, all hands on deck, these hostages must be released immediately.

AI assessment note: “my strategy is quite simple. It's peace around the world and it's prosperity at home”

Q Okay, so now, now go to Medicare, but I think I know what you're going to say because you mentioned it, capitation, but yeah, Maybe talk very quickly on that and then military. What, what do you cut through?

A Yeah, so, so quickly on healthcare, look guys, I, I represent UnitedHealth Group. In my district, tens of thousands of Minnesotans, many of them who live in my district, earn very handsome salaries from United. They've done some great work, uh, in many ways, but I have to tell you, uh, since I've joined Congress in my third term now, uh, you would be in tears if you had to sit with the people that I've sat with over so many occasions who thought they had coverage, whose son got sick, or whose, you know, whose mother broke a leg or something, And they literally have gone bankrupt or take on tens of thousands of dollars in medical debt and they get surprise bills. And then they read in the paper that their health insurer reported annual net income of over twenty billion dollars. And I don't know how you guys feel, but I got to tell you, you know, I'm a capitalist. Uh, I'm also compassionate, and I can no longer reconcile that. I really can't. There's a reason we're the only nation in the world that does it this way. I think it's time the way, by the way, from Roosevelt to Truman to Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon proposed universal health coverage, and it was Ted Kennedy that undermined it, if you can imagine that. If we don't, if conservatives and progressives don't come to the table, And talk about how we can deliver a national health insurance program that is portable, uh, lets g…

AI assessment note: “deliver a national health insurance program that is portable”

Q on in the war, you supported Biden's policy. I'm wondering, have events on the ground now change your view at all? How do you feel about it today? Do you think it was a mistake not to try and work out a peace deal? In those early months of the war. And if you were president, what would you try and do differently now to try and end this thing?

A Well, first of all, I think we have to back up to 20 14 to talk about this, David. Um, You know, first of all, I, I, I've seen that reporting. I, I do not have confirmation of the validity of that. Uh, and, and, and, and if I did, I could talk about it more directly, but if that's the truth, uh, I would first ask, did that include Crimea? And secondly, it is not the, it's not a United States decision about whether or not Ukraine should agree to a peace deal. It is, uh, Ukraine's decision, plain and simple, but I, I do want to turn back the clock a little bit, because I think this all kind of plays together.

AI assessment note: “I do want to turn back the clock a little bit”

Q Do you think it's actually being used for psyops?

A I'll make this really simple. You know, if we want to change our constitution and change what we consider speech, uh, change how the federal government or any, uh, domestic government affects people's rights to what they watch, what they read, what they eat, how they pray, how they think, where they go, with whom they congregate. You know what? That's up to Americans. But I think to target one app is a huge mistake. And my, I have a very simple solution. Hold every single platform to the same standard. Uh, transparency, uh, via, uh, their algorithm, uh, have an independent commission perhaps that is charged and responsible with assessing, um, uh, and, and holding those platforms to account, and if any of them violate the terms that we pass into law, then they should be banned. But to target one, I think it's not insensible.

AI assessment note: “to target one app is a huge mistake. And my, I have a very simple solution.”