Oct 9, 2024 · 44m · allin
Flying Cars Have Arrived! eVTOL Panel: Archer, Joby, Wisk | All-In Summit 2024
Brian Yutko · 10m spoken JoeBen Bevirt · 9m spoken Adam Goldstein · 8m spoken Jason Calacanis · 4m spoken
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
At the All-In Summit 2024, executives from leading eVTOL companies—Joby Aviation, Archer Aviation, and Wisk Aero—showcase their electric air taxi technologies and engage in a comprehensive panel discussion on urban air mobility. The panel covers critical topics including autonomous flight, regulatory certification, safety redundancies, noise benchmarks, and target commercial launch timelines in the US and abroad.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. The hosts hold 10.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
The hosts as informed peer 2.9 Guest teaching 3.1 Guest disagreement 1.6 The hosts pushing back 2.1
speaking balance: gold is the hosts, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:47 Adam Goldstein rejecting US launch premise
Adam Goldstein directly interrupts the host's question about domestic launch cities to insist that commercial launches will not start in the US due to heavy regulatory capture.
Hardest push from the hosts ▶ 42:15 Jason challenging bureaucratic accountability assumptionsJason refuses the premise that regulators are stalled by fear of personal downside, arguing that historical precedents like the SEC and Boeing 737 Max show bureaucrats face zero accountability.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 18:02 Brian Yutko presenting 2023 airline zero accident benchmarkBrian Yutko stuns the host by revealing that global commercial airlines achieved zero fatal accidents across 30 million flights in 2023, completely reshaping the host's understanding of regulatory conservatism.
The host holds their own ▶ 37:21 Jason asserting technical expertise on regulatory insider rotationJason draws on deep regulatory policy knowledge to refute popular political talking points, explicitly demonstrating why domain experts from industry must participate in government oversight.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | The hosts as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | The hosts pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Joby Aviation Company Showcase Video | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | This segment consists of company presentation monologues introducing Joby and Archer. Because there is no active host interaction or questioning during the presentation, host-side metrics are zeroed. | |
| Wisk Aero Presentation on Autonomous eVTOL Progress | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Brian Yutko delivers a solo keynote presentation on Wisk Aero's autonomous eVTOL development. As a monologue segment, host interaction scores remain zero. | |
| Panel Discussion: Public Perception, Safety, and Noise | 2 | 3 | 1 | 2 | Jason opens the panel with broad questions regarding public perception, noise, and potential air highways. Adam Goldstein reframes expectations by explaining that even aggressive eVTOL deployments will not exceed current helicopter volumes for a long time. | |
| Panel Discussion: Launch Markets and Regulatory Challenges | 3 | 4 | 3 | 1 | When Jason asks where the first US launch city will be, Adam Goldstein interrupts to reject the premise that operations will start in the US. Goldstein forcefully highlights US regulatory capture and explains why launches will happen internationally first in regions like the UAE. | |
| Panel Discussion: Commercial Aviation Safety Standards & Automation | 4 | 5 | 2 | 4 | Jason asks about pilot union resistance and challenges Brian on how to justify autonomous systems if safety is already high. Brian educates the host by citing that commercial airlines achieved zero fatal accidents in 2023, reframing regulatory reluctance as systemic conservatism rather than malice. | |
| Panel Discussion: Pilot Roles, Autonomy, and Redundancies | 3 | 3 | 1 | 2 | The panel discusses the role of human pilots versus ground supervisors and aircraft redundancy. JoeBen Bevirt explains how multi-motor configurations eliminate single points of failure found in traditional helicopters. | |
| Edge Cases in eVTOL Flight Safety: Icing, Wind, and Multi-Rotor Redundancy | 3 | 4 | 1 | 2 | Jason probes edge-case flight risks like icing and wind shear. JoeBen educates the panel on aerodynamic recovery from vortex ring state by tilting rotors forward, demonstrating unique electric VTOL advantages. | |
| eVTOL Noise Levels and Urban Acoustic Benchmarks | 4 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Jason asks targeted questions comparing decibel levels of eVTOLs to garbage trucks and helicopters. JoeBen details the logarithmic nature of decibels and explains how slowing propeller tip speed reduces urban sound signatures. | |
| eVTOL Aircraft Design Trade-Offs: Range, Speed, and Battery Tech | 4 | 4 | 2 | 2 | Jason drives technical inquiry into battery chemistry and energy density trade-offs. Adam Goldstein explains the physics constraints of battery payload and lightheartedly notes how venture capitalists initially rejected their funding requests. | |
| Timelines and Predictions for Commercial Flight Operations | 3 | 2 | 2 | 5 | Jason aggressively presses all three guests to commit to a specific calendar quarter for commercial operations. Despite initial deflections toward international markets, host pushback forces Adam and JoeBen to name late 2025 timelines. | |
| Regulatory Pathways, FAA Challenges, and Global eVTOL Competition | 5 | 4 | 2 | 3 | Jason demonstrates strong policy understanding when comparing US FAA progress against fast-moving Chinese competitors. He offers a direct counter-argument to anti-industry rhetoric by asserting that revolving industry expertise is necessary for competent regulation. | |
| Incentive Structures, Bureaucratic Risk Aversion, and Policy Mandates | 5 | 3 | 3 | 5 | Jason firmly rejects the claim that regulatory bureaucrats face significant personal or professional downside for stalling innovation. He pushes back directly, pointing out that agency officials routinely retain their positions even after massive industrial failures. | |
| Human Life Impact, Ground Safety Comparisons, and Panel Conclusion | 2 | 5 | 3 | 1 | The panel closes with guests strongly reframing the safety debate around societal impact. JoeBen educates the audience on the 40,000 annual US driving deaths, proving that shifting travel to air transport would save thousands of lives. |
Statements from this episode (25)
Goldstein: Archer's Georgia manufacturing facility will open later in 2024
“Our high-volume manufacturing facility in Georgia will open up later this year”
Goldstein: Stellantis has invested nearly $300M in Archer Aviation
“Stellantis, the owner of Jeep, Ram, and Maserati, has invested nearly three hundred million dollars to date.”
United Airlines ordered up to $1.5B of Archer Midnight aircraft
“United Airlines has ordered up to one and a half billion dollars of midnight aircraft”
Wisk Aero flew the first electric VTOL aircraft in Los Angeles in 2023
“Here in Los Angeles last year, we flew the first electric VTOL aircraft in the Los Angeles area, and we showed what's possible with these aircraft and how people can engage with them.”
Wisk Aero to fly Gen 6 autonomous aircraft by end of 2024
“And, ah, by the end of this year, we'll be flying this aircraft, which will be the first attempt at certifying a passenger carrying autonomous aircraft.”
Bevirt: Noise is the primary community concern for eVTOLs after safety
“Priority two through nine in people's priority stack is about noise and making an acoustic signature that's gonna get communities to see this as a real advantage and something that's increases the value of living in that community because you're close to this …”
Adam Goldstein: eVTOL aircraft are mechanically simpler and safer than helicopters
“A helicopter is actually way more complex than what we're building. We're actually building a much more simplified version. Of what exists. It's safer. It's fully redundant.”
Tripling optimistic eVTOL projections would not match current helicopter volume
“So if you took all three of us, you took our most bullish estimates that we have and you triple them, we still would not even replace helicopters.”
Goldstein: Commercial eVTOL launches will begin internationally before the US
“I think it's, to me, super clear this does not start in the U.S. I really think it starts internationally.”
Bevirt: eVTOL technology has off-the-charts bipartisan support in Washington
“The amount of bipartisan support on, on both sides of the aisle in Washington is off the charts.”
Wisk CEO: Joby and Archer will launch commercial operations before Wisk
“Joe Ben and Adam are going to be operating before us, there's no doubt, because piloted aircraft are coming before these uncrewed aircraft.”
Wisk CEO: Large commercial aircraft will remain human-piloted for foreseeable future
“Large aircraft are going to be piloted for probably as far as the eye can see.”
Goldstein: China has already certified two eVTOL companies
“There's two groups that are already certified there.”
Bevirt: Remote pilots will eventually manage multiple autonomous eVTOLs at once
“A pilot can, over time, begin to operate multiple aircraft at the same time.”
Joby Aviation achieved aircraft noise under 45 decibels in overflight
“We want to be below 45 decibels in over flight. And we've achieved both of those goals.”
Bevirt: eVTOLs will initially be game changers on select routes
“And so there's only going to be select routes where this is a game changer because of the multimodal nature.”
Goldstein: Archer designing eVTOL for up to 100-mile range
“We're designing to go up to a hundred miles, but the real design is around back to rapid, back to back, 20 to 50 mile trips.”
Joby is certifying its eVTOL aircraft with 300 Wh/kg battery cells
“The batteries that we're certifying our aircraft with are have a specific energy of about 300 watt hours per kilogram.”
Bevirt: eVTOL battery specific energy almost doubled in 15 years
“When I started the company in, in 2009, we had cells that had sufficient specific power to do a vertical takeoff, but also we're at about a 170 watt hours a kilogram. So we've almost doubled the specific energy in the cells over the last 15 years.”
Archer Aviation will launch international passenger flights in 2025
“I think pretty clearly there's a route to do this internationally next year. And so I think we'll launch with passengers next year.”
Bevirt: Joby will launch commercial service in UAE in 2025
“So I think we're on a timeline which we publicly announced to begin commercial service. In the UAE next year.”
Regulators do not understand frontier technologies better than the developers
“And so whenever you, whenever you're engaging with a regulator, no matter if it's aviation or if it's biotech or some other thing, if you're really, really on the frontier, it means that, that the regulator doesn't necessarily understand the technology any bet…”
China will iterate on eVTOLs faster due to forward-leaning regulations
“The regulatory pathway there is more forward-leaning, I think, as Adam pointed out. And I think you're gonna see more, more rapid iteration, iteration.”
Upcoming FAA rules will accelerate small personal aircraft development
“I think the good news here in the US is that the FAA is in the process of releasing something called Mosaic. Which for aircraft that are smaller than ours aircraft with, like, two passengers in them, more of a personal ownership type of thing, that's gonna all…”