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Apr 3, 2016 · 20m · top-founders

Magic Words That Make People Buy with Ray Edwards EP 221

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Ray Edwards · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In episode 221 of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews direct-response copywriter and author Ray Edwards about the economics of book funnels, high-ticket copywriting retainers, and scaling an online education business. Ray breaks down his free-plus-shipping acquisition models, email list hygiene strategies, and business growth milestones.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 50.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 0.3 Nathan pushing back 1.0
05100:0010:0020:001:14–5:08 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Copywriter and Author Ray Edwards Nathan warmly introduces Ray and demonstrates an understanding of the direct-response book launch model. Ray details his free-plus-shipping strategy and backend course upsell economics in an entirely collaborative exchange.5:08–9:00 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Publishing Evolution and Writing Riches Retrospective Nathan presses for specific sales figures and royalty arrangements, citing previous interview knowledge regarding Morgan James Publishing's typical author deals. Ray explains that the book functioned primarily as a client-acquisition lead magnet generating half a million dollars.9:00–11:51 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Email List Scrubbing and Launch Marketing Strategy Ray outlines his upsell sequence and his strategy of aggressive list scrubbing to cut inactive subscribers. Nathan validates the technique and probes into conversion mechanics.11:51–14:26 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Revenue Growth, Affiliate Launches, and High-End Retainers Nathan quickly runs the numbers on Ray's gross revenue and affiliate commission deductions to determine net margins. Ray validates Nathan's math and shares his premium $150k copywriting retainer fee.14:26–16:35 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Copywriting Consultation and Title Brainstorming Nathan invites Ray to provide live copywriting critique for his call-to-action and episode headline. Ray easily delivers direct-response suggestions, followed by host sponsor reads.16:35–19:20 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation moves briskly through the Famous Five questions, with Nathan connecting Ray's tool choice back to a previous guest interview.1:14–5:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Copywriter and Author Ray Edwards Nathan warmly introduces Ray and demonstrates an understanding of the direct-response book launch model. Ray details his free-plus-shipping strategy and backend course upsell economics in an entirely collaborative exchange.5:08–9:00 · Guest teaching 2/10 Publishing Evolution and Writing Riches Retrospective Nathan presses for specific sales figures and royalty arrangements, citing previous interview knowledge regarding Morgan James Publishing's typical author deals. Ray explains that the book functioned primarily as a client-acquisition lead magnet generating half a million dollars.9:00–11:51 · Guest teaching 2/10 Email List Scrubbing and Launch Marketing Strategy Ray outlines his upsell sequence and his strategy of aggressive list scrubbing to cut inactive subscribers. Nathan validates the technique and probes into conversion mechanics.11:51–14:26 · Guest teaching 1/10 Revenue Growth, Affiliate Launches, and High-End Retainers Nathan quickly runs the numbers on Ray's gross revenue and affiliate commission deductions to determine net margins. Ray validates Nathan's math and shares his premium $150k copywriting retainer fee.14:26–16:35 · Guest teaching 4/10 Copywriting Consultation and Title Brainstorming Nathan invites Ray to provide live copywriting critique for his call-to-action and episode headline. Ray easily delivers direct-response suggestions, followed by host sponsor reads.16:35–19:20 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation moves briskly through the Famous Five questions, with Nathan connecting Ray's tool choice back to a previous guest interview.1:14–5:08 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Introducing Copywriter and Author Ray Edwards Nathan warmly introduces Ray and demonstrates an understanding of the direct-response book launch model. Ray details his free-plus-shipping strategy and backend course upsell economics in an entirely collaborative exchange.5:08–9:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Publishing Evolution and Writing Riches Retrospective Nathan presses for specific sales figures and royalty arrangements, citing previous interview knowledge regarding Morgan James Publishing's typical author deals. Ray explains that the book functioned primarily as a client-acquisition lead magnet generating half a million dollars.9:00–11:51 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Email List Scrubbing and Launch Marketing Strategy Ray outlines his upsell sequence and his strategy of aggressive list scrubbing to cut inactive subscribers. Nathan validates the technique and probes into conversion mechanics.11:51–14:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Growth, Affiliate Launches, and High-End Retainers Nathan quickly runs the numbers on Ray's gross revenue and affiliate commission deductions to determine net margins. Ray validates Nathan's math and shares his premium $150k copywriting retainer fee.14:26–16:35 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Copywriting Consultation and Title Brainstorming Nathan invites Ray to provide live copywriting critique for his call-to-action and episode headline. Ray easily delivers direct-response suggestions, followed by host sponsor reads.16:35–19:20 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation moves briskly through the Famous Five questions, with Nathan connecting Ray's tool choice back to a previous guest interview.1:14–5:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing Copywriter and Author Ray Edwards Nathan warmly introduces Ray and demonstrates an understanding of the direct-response book launch model. Ray details his free-plus-shipping strategy and backend course upsell economics in an entirely collaborative exchange.5:08–9:00 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Publishing Evolution and Writing Riches Retrospective Nathan presses for specific sales figures and royalty arrangements, citing previous interview knowledge regarding Morgan James Publishing's typical author deals. Ray explains that the book functioned primarily as a client-acquisition lead magnet generating half a million dollars.9:00–11:51 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Email List Scrubbing and Launch Marketing Strategy Ray outlines his upsell sequence and his strategy of aggressive list scrubbing to cut inactive subscribers. Nathan validates the technique and probes into conversion mechanics.11:51–14:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Revenue Growth, Affiliate Launches, and High-End Retainers Nathan quickly runs the numbers on Ray's gross revenue and affiliate commission deductions to determine net margins. Ray validates Nathan's math and shares his premium $150k copywriting retainer fee.14:26–16:35 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Copywriting Consultation and Title Brainstorming Nathan invites Ray to provide live copywriting critique for his call-to-action and episode headline. Ray easily delivers direct-response suggestions, followed by host sponsor reads.16:35–19:20 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The conversation moves briskly through the Famous Five questions, with Nathan connecting Ray's tool choice back to a previous guest interview.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 83.8% · guest 16.2%0:00 · Nathan 83.8% · guest 16.2%3:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%3:00 · Nathan 34.1% · guest 65.9%6:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%6:00 · Nathan 28.9% · guest 71.1%9:00 · Nathan 18% · guest 82%9:00 · Nathan 18% · guest 82%12:00 · Nathan 36.1% · guest 63.9%12:00 · Nathan 36.1% · guest 63.9%15:00 · Nathan 70.7% · guest 29.3%15:00 · Nathan 70.7% · guest 29.3%18:00 · Nathan 86.9% · guest 13.1%18:00 · Nathan 86.9% · guest 13.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:48 Correcting assumption about project scope

Ray playfully checks Nathan's assumption about charging $150k for a simple landing page, clarifying that the fee covers full multi-month launch campaigns.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:30 Drilling into book volume and royalty specifics

Nathan repeatedly presses Ray to share exact unit sales and direct book royalties rather than accepting high-level backend consulting estimates.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:08 Explaining the loss-leader book funnel

Ray educates the audience and host on why free-plus-shipping offers lose money on frontend fulfillment but liquidate customer acquisition costs via backend upsells.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:04 Nathan calculates net take-home from affiliate launch

Nathan instantly breaks down the math on a $400k gross launch with a 40% affiliate split, illustrating his sharp grasp of online product launch economics.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Copywriter and Author Ray Edwards 5201 Nathan warmly introduces Ray and demonstrates an understanding of the direct-response book launch model. Ray details his free-plus-shipping strategy and backend course upsell economics in an entirely collaborative exchange.
Publishing Evolution and Writing Riches Retrospective 6212 Nathan presses for specific sales figures and royalty arrangements, citing previous interview knowledge regarding Morgan James Publishing's typical author deals. Ray explains that the book functioned primarily as a client-acquisition lead magnet generating half a million dollars.
Email List Scrubbing and Launch Marketing Strategy 5201 Ray outlines his upsell sequence and his strategy of aggressive list scrubbing to cut inactive subscribers. Nathan validates the technique and probes into conversion mechanics.
Revenue Growth, Affiliate Launches, and High-End Retainers 6112 Nathan quickly runs the numbers on Ray's gross revenue and affiliate commission deductions to determine net margins. Ray validates Nathan's math and shares his premium $150k copywriting retainer fee.
Copywriting Consultation and Title Brainstorming 3400 Nathan invites Ray to provide live copywriting critique for his call-to-action and episode headline. Ray easily delivers direct-response suggestions, followed by host sponsor reads.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4100 The conversation moves briskly through the Famous Five questions, with Nathan connecting Ray's tool choice back to a previous guest interview.

Statements from this episode (11)

Disclosure
Ray Edwards primarily monetizes through online copywriting training programs
“My main revenue is, at this point in time, selling training programs online, teaching people how to write copy for their business to sell more of their stuff.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 2:43
Disclosure
Edwards' free-plus-shipping book promotion costs $18 per unit to fulfill
“I'm losing money every time I do that because the book costs me about 18 dollars by the time I pay the fulfillment house, the shipping, the labeling, the postage, and all that, and buying the actual book, but what happens is we are able then to offer people mo…”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 4:36
Assertion Supported
Morgan James Publishing rejects about 95% of author submissions
“Now they have a different model. They, they're still an entrepreneurial publishing company, but they take submissions And they reject about 95% of them.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 6:23
Disclosure
Publishing 'Writing Riches' drove at least $500,000 in revenue for Edwards
“And as a result of not royalties from the book, But as a result of having written the book, I can attribute directly or indirectly at least half a million dollars in revenue from that book.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 8:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
A $200 upsell converting at 10% liquidates Edwards' book promotion costs
“If you order a free book, you pay the seven dollar shipping, you'll see a short low key video right after you order. That'll say, Hey, I've got this course on email copywriting. It's very quick. It's I've got templates you can use to send out emails to make mo…”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 9:35
Disclosure
Edwards pruned his email list from 37,000 to 18,000 active subscribers
“I knew I had a lot of dead weight on the list. People who weren't reading my emails, who weren't clicking them, who weren't opening them. And I just thought, you know, what I need to do is get only the people who are interested in hearing from me. So we went t…”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 11:18
Disclosure
Ray Edwards' business generated about $300,000 in revenue in 2014
“So we did about 300,000 dollars in revenue in 2014.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 12:11
Disclosure
Ray Edwards' business generated $678,000 in revenue in 2015
“678,000 dollars in revenue in 2015. That's the number.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 12:30
Disclosure
Ray Edwards generated $400,000 in one month from a course launch
“We did 400,000 dollars in one month with that course.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 12:38
Disclosure
Edwards charges a $150,000 minimum plus royalties for product launch copywriting
“150,000 dollars minimum plus the percentage of sales. And that's not made up. I just had somebody write a check for that within the last 30 days.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 13:45
Insight
Cheesy, direct-benefit headlines drive actual consumer purchasing behavior
“They say it sounds cheesy, but that's what they want. That's what they buy.”
Ray Edwards Apr 3, 2016 ▶ 15:15
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