Jun 2, 2016 · 29m · top-founders
Why Most Podcasters Lie with Rob Walch of Libsyn, EP 249: Rob Walsh
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gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions
Libsyn VP Rob Walch joins host Nathan Latka on 'The Top' to debunk widespread podcasting myths, explain the real mathematics behind Apple ranking algorithms, and provide verified industry benchmarks for podcast downloads and monetization.
How this conversation actually went
Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 44.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →
Nathan as informed peer 3.5 Guest teaching 4.6 Guest disagreement 4.0 Nathan pushing back 2.4
speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 21:05 Calling podcast tech investors stupid
Rob bluntly calls venture capitalists stupid for funding apps trying to force users away from Apple Podcasts to serve them more audio ads.
Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 15:30 Challenging sponsor URL attributionNathan refuses the premise that sponsor URLs measure podcast reach, arguing top podcasters game the tracking links by emailing their existing subscriber lists.
Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:05 Deconstructing the iTunes chart algorithmRob educates Nathan on why chart ranking is decoupled from download volume, explaining how 7-day weighted subscriber velocity dictates the top 200.
Nathan holds their own ▶ 22:51 Host calculates Libsyn's monthly revenueNathan leverages financial unit economics on Libsyn's 30,000 customers and average plan pricing to drill Rob on Libsyn's 600k monthly top-line revenue.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
| Chapter | Topic | Nathan as informed peer | Guest teaching | Guest disagreement | Nathan pushing back | Why |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Debunking the New and Noteworthy Chart Myth | 3 | 7 | 6 | 2 | Rob aggressively dismantles the industry obsession with New and Noteworthy, calling it a complete waste of time. He educates Nathan on how Apple's top 200 algorithm actually works based purely on new subscriber velocity over seven days rather than total downloads or reviews. | |
| Uncovering True Reach Through the Top Episodes Chart | 4 | 6 | 4 | 2 | Rob clarifies that the top episodes chart is the true indicator of audience reach, requiring six-figure downloads per episode to chart. Nathan follows along by pulling up real-time business chart rankings to verify Rob's claims on specific shows. | |
| Auditing The Top Entrepreneurs' Performance Metrics | 4 | 7 | 4 | 2 | Nathan offers his own show's monthly download numbers for critique, but Rob immediately corrects his framing to 30-day per-episode downloads. Rob delivers industry-wide Libsyn benchmark data, revealing the true median of 150 downloads and adjusted average of 2,000. | |
| The Fallacy of Paid Podcasting Coaching and Promotion | 5 | 6 | 7 | 5 | Rob derides expensive podcast coaching courses as scams, asserting the best podcasting advice is free. Nathan pushes back on sponsor ROI by arguing creators artificially juice custom tracking URLs using external email lists rather than organic podcast listeners. | |
| Analytics Blindspots and Apple's Data Monopoly | 4 | 7 | 8 | 3 | Rob dismisses the idea of second-by-second audio heat maps as an impossible fantasy due to Apple's locked-down ecosystem. He aggressively attacks attempts by venture-backed apps like Acast to alter consumer listening habits, calling investors stupid. | |
| Libsyn's Corporate Scale, Customer Numbers, and Financial Model | 6 | 3 | 2 | 4 | Nathan rapidly interrogates Libsyn's business model, customer numbers, and headcount, estimating Libsyn's monthly revenue at around 600,000 dollars. Rob confirms 29,000 paying shows but demurs on specific financial estimates due to SEC public filing rules. | |
| Sponsor Break: FreshBooks Invoicing for Service Professionals | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | The segment begins with Nathan's mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator followed by the Famous Five rapid-fire questionnaire. Rob shares his favorite business book and tools in an agreeable, lighthearted exchange. | |
| Interview Conclusion and Episode Summary | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Nathan delivers a closing solo outro thanking Rob, summarizing key insights on podcast metrics, and pitching promotional giveaways for listeners. |
Statements from this episode (17)
Libsyn's Rob Walch: iTunes New & Noteworthy only adds 100 downloads
“In the business section, you're lucky if it gives you a bump of a hundred.”
Walch: Top-charting podcasts never cared about New & Noteworthy
“If you talk to the podcast that are at the top of the podcast charts, none of them worried about new and noteworthy. Not one of them. None of them even know what it is.”
Walch: iTunes Top 200 Chart Ignores Ratings and Reviews
“The top 200 list in iTunes is based on the total number of new subscribers in the last seven days with a weighted average for the last 24, 48, and 72 hours. It does not factor in ratings and reviews in the top 200 list.”
Walch: iTunes Top 15 Show Once Had Under 1,000 Downloads
“I, I've looked at the top 200 overall, and one week I was looking, and number 12 had two and a half million downloads for the episode that was released most recent, and number 15 had 979.”
Walch: iTunes Top Episodes chart reflects weighted weekly downloads after 24-hour delay
“So when an episode is released in iTunes, it won't show up in the top episode list until about 24 hours after it's been released. So if you look at that list, it's again, it's going to be how many new downloads that show is getting in the last week with again,…”
Walch: Reaching Apple's top episode chart requires hundreds of thousands of downloads
“We're talking hundreds of thousands. Hundreds of thousands of downloads per episode. We're talking six figures to get in the top episode list.”
Rob Walch: Median podcast episode receives approximately 150 downloads after 30 days
“When we look at the median number of where shows fall, it's about a hundred and fifties, the median. That means I think last week, last month was a 156 or just think, I think it was.”
Rob Walch: Adjusted average podcast episode gets roughly 2,000 downloads since 2012
“Take out the top half percent, and I take anything three or fewer out, the average is right about 2000. It stays 2000 plus or minus a couple hundred. And it stayed that way since 2012. It hasn't changed.”
Rob Walch: Reaching 5,000 downloads places a podcast in top 8% globally
“So, if you get to 5000, now you're in the top eight percent of shows.”
Walch: Podcasting advice quality is inversely proportional to its price
“The best advice out there for podcasting is inversely relational podcast. To the amount that you would spend for it. The best advice is free. The more you spend, the worst advice you're going to get.”
Walch: Blasting an owned email list drives new podcasts to number one
“Email lists work great when you're launching a new show. You want to know the one thing that works when you're launching a new show? Is, is having an email list. That's your list. Not that one you bought from somebody, but your own list. You curated those peop…”
Walch: Shows with 5,000+ downloads per episode earn $30-$50 CPMs
“Well, no, it's for shows getting 5000 and more.”
Walch: Apple ecosystem accounts for 70% of podcast consumption
“Apple, iTunes, and the podcast app are 70%.”
Walch: Apple will never release granular playback drop-off data
“And I don't see Apple ever releasing out the information that we would need to get on that playback and where it leaves.”
Walch: Podcasting has an ease-of-consumption problem, not a discoverability problem
“Because there isn't a discoverability issue in podcasting. What there is, is an ease of consumption issue. And what Marco did with his app, Overcast, he made it easy for people to consume the content they know they want to consume.”
Walch: Forcing podcast listeners onto proprietary apps for ads will fail
“Really, really, you're going to change how people want to consume it so that they can get more ads. Wow, what a stupid idea that is. So you think people out there are going to go, yes, I want to hear Geico ads. Please let me change how I listen. No, that's not…”