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Jun 10, 2016 · 17m · top-founders

How Fun Fun Fun Fest Went From 3,000 to 16,000 Attendees in Under 5 Years, EP 275 - Graham Williams

Graham Williams · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this live episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews concert promoter Graham Williams on how he scaled Austin's Fun Fun Fun Fest from a grassroots 3,000-person gathering into a multi-million-dollar boutique festival while leveraging it to fuel his year-round entertainment agency, Transmission Events.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 47.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 2.5 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.7 Nathan pushing back 2.5
05100:0010:001:38–4:03 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Founding and Early Promotion of Fun Fun Fun Fest Latka guides the conversation through the festival's founding history and early promotion tactics. Williams easily shares his background at Emo's and grassroots marketing efforts on Myspace.4:03–6:13 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Scaling Festival Attendance, Production Budgets, and Lineups Latka inquires about the jump to 20,000 attendees and multi-million dollar production budgets. Williams breaks down production line items and compares his boutique festival to behemoths like Coachella.6:13–9:22 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Financial Mechanics: Tickets, Sponsorships, and On-Site Sales Latka tries to calculate gross ticket revenue by multiplying total attendees by the weekend pass price. Williams corrects the simplistic math by explaining single-day sales, VIP pricing, and beverage splits.9:22–11:24 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Weather Risks, Profitability, and Year-Round Agency Synergy Latka presses for specific profit figures on a $5M spend, but Williams protects partner confidentiality and reframes festival economics as a low-margin labor of love that fuels their year-round agency.11:25–13:34 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Sponsor Spotlights: FreshBooks Invoicing and HostGator Web Hosting Solo host ad reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.13:36–16:18 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Graham Williams During the rapid-fire section, Williams defies typical startup tropes by admitting he has never read a business book, follows no CEOs, and only uses Gmail to run his agency, forcing Latka to prod for details.1:38–4:03 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Founding and Early Promotion of Fun Fun Fun Fest Latka guides the conversation through the festival's founding history and early promotion tactics. Williams easily shares his background at Emo's and grassroots marketing efforts on Myspace.4:03–6:13 · Guest teaching 3/10 Scaling Festival Attendance, Production Budgets, and Lineups Latka inquires about the jump to 20,000 attendees and multi-million dollar production budgets. Williams breaks down production line items and compares his boutique festival to behemoths like Coachella.6:13–9:22 · Guest teaching 5/10 Financial Mechanics: Tickets, Sponsorships, and On-Site Sales Latka tries to calculate gross ticket revenue by multiplying total attendees by the weekend pass price. Williams corrects the simplistic math by explaining single-day sales, VIP pricing, and beverage splits.9:22–11:24 · Guest teaching 4/10 Weather Risks, Profitability, and Year-Round Agency Synergy Latka presses for specific profit figures on a $5M spend, but Williams protects partner confidentiality and reframes festival economics as a low-margin labor of love that fuels their year-round agency.11:25–13:34 · Guest teaching 0/10 Sponsor Spotlights: FreshBooks Invoicing and HostGator Web Hosting Solo host ad reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.13:36–16:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Graham Williams During the rapid-fire section, Williams defies typical startup tropes by admitting he has never read a business book, follows no CEOs, and only uses Gmail to run his agency, forcing Latka to prod for details.1:38–4:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Founding and Early Promotion of Fun Fun Fun Fest Latka guides the conversation through the festival's founding history and early promotion tactics. Williams easily shares his background at Emo's and grassroots marketing efforts on Myspace.4:03–6:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Scaling Festival Attendance, Production Budgets, and Lineups Latka inquires about the jump to 20,000 attendees and multi-million dollar production budgets. Williams breaks down production line items and compares his boutique festival to behemoths like Coachella.6:13–9:22 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Financial Mechanics: Tickets, Sponsorships, and On-Site Sales Latka tries to calculate gross ticket revenue by multiplying total attendees by the weekend pass price. Williams corrects the simplistic math by explaining single-day sales, VIP pricing, and beverage splits.9:22–11:24 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Weather Risks, Profitability, and Year-Round Agency Synergy Latka presses for specific profit figures on a $5M spend, but Williams protects partner confidentiality and reframes festival economics as a low-margin labor of love that fuels their year-round agency.11:25–13:34 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Sponsor Spotlights: FreshBooks Invoicing and HostGator Web Hosting Solo host ad reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.13:36–16:18 · Guest disagreement 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Graham Williams During the rapid-fire section, Williams defies typical startup tropes by admitting he has never read a business book, follows no CEOs, and only uses Gmail to run his agency, forcing Latka to prod for details.1:38–4:03 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Founding and Early Promotion of Fun Fun Fun Fest Latka guides the conversation through the festival's founding history and early promotion tactics. Williams easily shares his background at Emo's and grassroots marketing efforts on Myspace.4:03–6:13 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Scaling Festival Attendance, Production Budgets, and Lineups Latka inquires about the jump to 20,000 attendees and multi-million dollar production budgets. Williams breaks down production line items and compares his boutique festival to behemoths like Coachella.6:13–9:22 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Financial Mechanics: Tickets, Sponsorships, and On-Site Sales Latka tries to calculate gross ticket revenue by multiplying total attendees by the weekend pass price. Williams corrects the simplistic math by explaining single-day sales, VIP pricing, and beverage splits.9:22–11:24 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Weather Risks, Profitability, and Year-Round Agency Synergy Latka presses for specific profit figures on a $5M spend, but Williams protects partner confidentiality and reframes festival economics as a low-margin labor of love that fuels their year-round agency.11:25–13:34 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Sponsor Spotlights: FreshBooks Invoicing and HostGator Web Hosting Solo host ad reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.13:36–16:18 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Graham Williams During the rapid-fire section, Williams defies typical startup tropes by admitting he has never read a business book, follows no CEOs, and only uses Gmail to run his agency, forcing Latka to prod for details.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 65.8% · guest 34.2%0:00 · Nathan 65.8% · guest 34.2%3:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%3:00 · Nathan 27.2% · guest 72.8%6:00 · Nathan 22.1% · guest 77.9%6:00 · Nathan 22.1% · guest 77.9%9:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%9:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%12:00 · Nathan 83.6% · guest 16.4%12:00 · Nathan 83.6% · guest 16.4%15:00 · Nathan 53.7% · guest 46.3%15:00 · Nathan 53.7% · guest 46.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 13:47 Deadpan dismissal of tech and business tropes

Williams nonchalantly rejects standard business questions by stating he doesn't read business books, follows no CEOs, and merely sends emails rather than using sophisticated agency software.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:51 Latka presses Williams on exact event profitability

Latka refuses vague answers about festival financials and directly challenges Williams to confirm whether the festival netted a million-dollar profit.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:24 Williams dismantles simple ticket multiplication

Williams educates Latka on festival attendance economics, explaining how single-day buyers, VIP ticketing, and attendance averages distort straightforward aggregate revenue math.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 8:36 Latka frames niche curation value to advertisers

Latka synthesizes Williams' sponsorship explanation by demonstrating how curated boutique audiences command higher CPMs from targeted corporate sponsors.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
The Founding and Early Promotion of Fun Fun Fun Fest 3211 Latka guides the conversation through the festival's founding history and early promotion tactics. Williams easily shares his background at Emo's and grassroots marketing efforts on Myspace.
Scaling Festival Attendance, Production Budgets, and Lineups 3312 Latka inquires about the jump to 20,000 attendees and multi-million dollar production budgets. Williams breaks down production line items and compares his boutique festival to behemoths like Coachella.
Financial Mechanics: Tickets, Sponsorships, and On-Site Sales 4525 Latka tries to calculate gross ticket revenue by multiplying total attendees by the weekend pass price. Williams corrects the simplistic math by explaining single-day sales, VIP pricing, and beverage splits.
Weather Risks, Profitability, and Year-Round Agency Synergy 3434 Latka presses for specific profit figures on a $5M spend, but Williams protects partner confidentiality and reframes festival economics as a low-margin labor of love that fuels their year-round agency.
Sponsor Spotlights: FreshBooks Invoicing and HostGator Web Hosting 0000 Solo host ad reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Graham Williams 2233 During the rapid-fire section, Williams defies typical startup tropes by admitting he has never read a business book, follows no CEOs, and only uses Gmail to run his agency, forcing Latka to prod for details.

Statements from this episode (7)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Williams: Fun Fun Fun Fest drew 3,000 and turned a profit in year one
“I don't know the exact cost, probably a hundred grand or so, small, compared to what it costs now. The festival probably did about 3000 people. It was one day. And yeah, I mean, it actually made a teeny tiny profit, even.”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 2:44
Assertion Supported
Williams: Fun Fun Fun Fest Drew ~20,000 Daily Attendees in 2015
“Around 20,000 or so. And it's three days, it used to be one. That first year was one day, now it's three days.”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 4:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Williams: Fun Fun Fun Fest Budget Is $4M to $5M
“I don't even know off the top of my head, it's four or five million.”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 4:20
Disclosure
Williams: Ticket sales are only half of Fun Fun Fun Fest's revenue
“Tickets alone are probably about half of what we pull in. So I, it's not in front of me. It's hard to say. I want to say there's like one to two million in ticket sales.”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 7:14
Insight
Williams: Brand sponsors favor boutique events over broad mass reach
“There is definitely a new mindset in the sponsorship world that isn't so focused on what's the biggest thing we can be a part of, but more what's the coolest thing we can be a part of, or how do we market our brand uniquely and actually connect with fans and b…”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 8:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Williams: 100,000-person music festivals make around $10 million in profit
“I mean, we make money, but I wouldn't say, compared to some of the big festivals that make ten million dollars, those are festivals with a 100,000 people, so we're a lot smaller.”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 9:59
What-if
Williams: I should have launched Transmission Events five years earlier
“I worked at Emo's, this one club, for about a decade before I started Transmission, I probably should have started that company five years before that. Same with the festival. But I probably stayed in a comfortable zone that I knew well and didn't take as many…”
Graham Williams Jun 10, 2016 ▶ 15:25
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