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Jun 21, 2016 · 21m · top-founders

He's Sold The Most CutCo Knives Ever, EP 308: John Ruhlin

John Ruhlin · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews John Ruhlin, Cutco Cutlery's historic top sales producer and founder of The Ruhlin Group. Ruhlin breaks down direct sales commission economics, executive corporate gifting strategies, overcoming severe operational setbacks, and publishing his book Giftology.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 32.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 2.2
05100:0010:0020:001:08–5:00 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 John Ruhlin's Background and Cutco Origins Latka drills down on Ruhlin's Cutco track record, pressing past vanity top-line figures to get exact personal take-home earnings and calculating net commission margins around 20-27%. Ruhlin willingly shares the numbers and explains Cutco's internal CPO metrics.5:00–8:53 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Executive Gifting Model and Chicago Cubs Case Study Ruhlin details his executive gifting agency model using the Chicago Cubs case study, creating bespoke speakers from repurposed Wrigley Field locker room wood. Latka pushes for unit economics and overall contract value.8:54–11:04 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Business Operations, Team Dynamics, and the 2008 Crisis Latka asks if Ruhlin's gifting revenue collapsed during the 2008 recession. Ruhlin reframes the premise, explaining that gifting demand actually remained strong, but his own outside real estate speculation and an embezzling accountant almost destroyed the company.11:06–15:52 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Publishing 'Giftology' and Bestseller Strategy The conversation covers hybrid publishing with Book in a Box and strategies for hitting the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. Latka passionately denounces services that game the bestseller lists, while Ruhlin explains target copy thresholds and focusing on long-tail sales.15:54–20:08 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Mid-Episode Announcements and HostGator Promotion A standard wrap-up segment consisting of sponsor ads, the Famous Five rapid-fire questions regarding tools, sleep habits, and early career lessons, and concluding promo plugs.1:08–5:00 · Guest teaching 3/10 John Ruhlin's Background and Cutco Origins Latka drills down on Ruhlin's Cutco track record, pressing past vanity top-line figures to get exact personal take-home earnings and calculating net commission margins around 20-27%. Ruhlin willingly shares the numbers and explains Cutco's internal CPO metrics.5:00–8:53 · Guest teaching 3/10 Executive Gifting Model and Chicago Cubs Case Study Ruhlin details his executive gifting agency model using the Chicago Cubs case study, creating bespoke speakers from repurposed Wrigley Field locker room wood. Latka pushes for unit economics and overall contract value.8:54–11:04 · Guest teaching 5/10 Business Operations, Team Dynamics, and the 2008 Crisis Latka asks if Ruhlin's gifting revenue collapsed during the 2008 recession. Ruhlin reframes the premise, explaining that gifting demand actually remained strong, but his own outside real estate speculation and an embezzling accountant almost destroyed the company.11:06–15:52 · Guest teaching 4/10 Publishing 'Giftology' and Bestseller Strategy The conversation covers hybrid publishing with Book in a Box and strategies for hitting the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. Latka passionately denounces services that game the bestseller lists, while Ruhlin explains target copy thresholds and focusing on long-tail sales.15:54–20:08 · Guest teaching 1/10 Mid-Episode Announcements and HostGator Promotion A standard wrap-up segment consisting of sponsor ads, the Famous Five rapid-fire questions regarding tools, sleep habits, and early career lessons, and concluding promo plugs.1:08–5:00 · Guest disagreement 1/10 John Ruhlin's Background and Cutco Origins Latka drills down on Ruhlin's Cutco track record, pressing past vanity top-line figures to get exact personal take-home earnings and calculating net commission margins around 20-27%. Ruhlin willingly shares the numbers and explains Cutco's internal CPO metrics.5:00–8:53 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Executive Gifting Model and Chicago Cubs Case Study Ruhlin details his executive gifting agency model using the Chicago Cubs case study, creating bespoke speakers from repurposed Wrigley Field locker room wood. Latka pushes for unit economics and overall contract value.8:54–11:04 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Business Operations, Team Dynamics, and the 2008 Crisis Latka asks if Ruhlin's gifting revenue collapsed during the 2008 recession. Ruhlin reframes the premise, explaining that gifting demand actually remained strong, but his own outside real estate speculation and an embezzling accountant almost destroyed the company.11:06–15:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Publishing 'Giftology' and Bestseller Strategy The conversation covers hybrid publishing with Book in a Box and strategies for hitting the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. Latka passionately denounces services that game the bestseller lists, while Ruhlin explains target copy thresholds and focusing on long-tail sales.15:54–20:08 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Mid-Episode Announcements and HostGator Promotion A standard wrap-up segment consisting of sponsor ads, the Famous Five rapid-fire questions regarding tools, sleep habits, and early career lessons, and concluding promo plugs.1:08–5:00 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 John Ruhlin's Background and Cutco Origins Latka drills down on Ruhlin's Cutco track record, pressing past vanity top-line figures to get exact personal take-home earnings and calculating net commission margins around 20-27%. Ruhlin willingly shares the numbers and explains Cutco's internal CPO metrics.5:00–8:53 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Executive Gifting Model and Chicago Cubs Case Study Ruhlin details his executive gifting agency model using the Chicago Cubs case study, creating bespoke speakers from repurposed Wrigley Field locker room wood. Latka pushes for unit economics and overall contract value.8:54–11:04 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Business Operations, Team Dynamics, and the 2008 Crisis Latka asks if Ruhlin's gifting revenue collapsed during the 2008 recession. Ruhlin reframes the premise, explaining that gifting demand actually remained strong, but his own outside real estate speculation and an embezzling accountant almost destroyed the company.11:06–15:52 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Publishing 'Giftology' and Bestseller Strategy The conversation covers hybrid publishing with Book in a Box and strategies for hitting the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. Latka passionately denounces services that game the bestseller lists, while Ruhlin explains target copy thresholds and focusing on long-tail sales.15:54–20:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Mid-Episode Announcements and HostGator Promotion A standard wrap-up segment consisting of sponsor ads, the Famous Five rapid-fire questions regarding tools, sleep habits, and early career lessons, and concluding promo plugs.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 62.7% · guest 37.3%0:00 · Nathan 62.7% · guest 37.3%3:00 · Nathan 19.8% · guest 80.2%3:00 · Nathan 19.8% · guest 80.2%6:00 · Nathan 13.2% · guest 86.8%6:00 · Nathan 13.2% · guest 86.8%9:00 · Nathan 14.3% · guest 85.7%9:00 · Nathan 14.3% · guest 85.7%12:00 · Nathan 12.4% · guest 87.6%12:00 · Nathan 12.4% · guest 87.6%15:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%15:00 · Nathan 53.9% · guest 46.1%18:00 · Nathan 41.1% · guest 58.9%18:00 · Nathan 41.1% · guest 58.9%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:11 Correcting the 2008 recession assumption

Ruhlin politely rejects Latka's assumption that clients stop gifting during a recession, noting clients actually became more intentional while his crisis was self-inflicted.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 2:56 Pushing past gross revenue to personal take-home

Latka interrupts gross sales talk to demand the exact net dollar amount Ruhlin took home in his pocket.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:14 Explaining WSJ bestseller mechanics

Ruhlin educates Latka on the specific volume required for a Wall Street Journal bestseller run, dispelling the common belief that millions of sales are needed.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:37 Denouncing manufactured bestsellers

Latka forcefully demonstrates his familiarity with book launch mechanics by criticizing paid bulk-buying agencies that prop up low-quality books.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
John Ruhlin's Background and Cutco Origins 4313 Latka drills down on Ruhlin's Cutco track record, pressing past vanity top-line figures to get exact personal take-home earnings and calculating net commission margins around 20-27%. Ruhlin willingly shares the numbers and explains Cutco's internal CPO metrics.
Executive Gifting Model and Chicago Cubs Case Study 3312 Ruhlin details his executive gifting agency model using the Chicago Cubs case study, creating bespoke speakers from repurposed Wrigley Field locker room wood. Latka pushes for unit economics and overall contract value.
Business Operations, Team Dynamics, and the 2008 Crisis 3522 Latka asks if Ruhlin's gifting revenue collapsed during the 2008 recession. Ruhlin reframes the premise, explaining that gifting demand actually remained strong, but his own outside real estate speculation and an embezzling accountant almost destroyed the company.
Publishing 'Giftology' and Bestseller Strategy 5413 The conversation covers hybrid publishing with Book in a Box and strategies for hitting the Wall Street Journal bestseller list. Latka passionately denounces services that game the bestseller lists, while Ruhlin explains target copy thresholds and focusing on long-tail sales.
Mid-Episode Announcements and HostGator Promotion 2101 A standard wrap-up segment consisting of sponsor ads, the Famous Five rapid-fire questions regarding tools, sleep habits, and early career lessons, and concluding promo plugs.

Statements from this episode (9)

Assertion Supported
John Ruhlin: Cutco Generates About $250 Million in Revenue
“Cutco is is kind of a well, it's a small, big company, about two hundred fifty million in revenue out of New York.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 1:45
Disclosure
The Ruhlin Group has 25 pro sports clients using Cutco gifts
“We have 25 pro sports clients and even, you know, pro sports teams use it as gifts”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 2:30
Disclosure
Ruhlin: Best year selling Cutco was over $500K revenue, $120K take-home
“Bottom line is, is over half a million in sales was my best year, you know, back in the day when it was just knives. And our take home at that point in time after, you know, expenses and whatever else was like a 120,000.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 4:28
Opinion
Ruhlin: Bose and Beats have great branding but suck at audio quality
“The sound of the, you know, like the best speakers in the world are made out of wood. They're not made out of plastic or metal, like bows and beats and some of the stuff that is really cool brand, but it sucks when it comes to audio.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 7:23
Disclosure
Chicago Cubs paid $100-$1,000 per custom gift from renovated Wrigley wood
“Let's just say it was between a hundred and a thousand dollars per gift.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 8:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ruhlin almost lost his business in 2008 due to real estate investments
“My business didn't take a hit in oh eight, but I almost lost the business in oh eight because I got a little bit cocky and big for my britches and started, started to invest in realist corp, you know, like commercial real estate and invested in other companies…”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 10:12
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Ruhlin: Accountant and right-hand employee stole during 2008 IRS audit
“When everything came crashing down, I went to an IRS audit. I had an employee that was stealing from me. That was my accountant and a right hand person.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 10:26
Disclosure
Ruhlin paid Tucker Max's Book in a Box $18K-$20K for Giftology
“The level that I went through, it was like 18 to 20,000 dollars to, you know, to work with their editors.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 12:22
Assertion Contradicted
Ruhlin: WSJ bestseller list requires 7,000 to 10,000 sales in a single week
“Depending upon how you, it all has to hit during the same week and whatever else, but I would say seven to 10,000 copies. Ironically, it's not as many as most people think that it is.”
John Ruhlin Jun 21, 2016 ▶ 13:17
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