Jul 10, 2016 · 24m · top-founders

EP 351: $50K Monthly Revenue, Finally Designers Can Quickly Give File to Developers with Anh Vu of Avocode

Nathan Latka · 12m spoken An Vu · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top, Nathan Latka interviews Anh Vu, the 23-year-old founder of Avocode, who reveals how his design-to-code collaboration platform reached $50,000 in MRR with net negative churn and consistent monthly profitability.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 58.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 1.1 Guest disagreement 0.3 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:0020:001:46–4:46 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Streamlining Design-to-Developer Workflows with Avocode Nathan displays clear domain familiarity with the friction between designers, product managers, and developers over assets and hex codes. An gives concise overviews of the product's function and baseline revenue figures.4:46–7:12 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Count, Subscription Tiers, and ARPU Reconciliation Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between An's 2,800 customer count, $27 ARPU, and $50k MRR. He presses An until An explains that the ARPU reflects new cohorts while older pre-order users pay heavily discounted rates.7:12–11:06 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Churn Dynamics and Net Negative Revenue Churn Nathan breaks down SaaS unit economics around negative revenue churn and seat expansion. When An mistakenly refers to $35k total monthly expenses as a burn rate, Nathan clarifies the terminology to confirm the company is operating profitably.11:06–13:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Accelerator Funding, Valuation, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan instantly calculates the implied $2.5M post-money valuation from 500 Startups' investment terms and uses the inverse churn formula to model customer lifetime and LTV.13:13–15:58 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Target Market Segment, Month-over-Month Growth, and Fundraising Plans Nathan inquires about bottom-up team adoption and potential acquirers. An reveals turning down a $2-3M stock-heavy acquisition offer from InVision prior to launching Avocode.15:58–18:16 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Founder Contact Information and Online Handles An briefly shares his Twitter handle before Nathan transitions into mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.18:16–20:49 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format, adding historical context from a previous interview with Hiten Shah when An mentions him as an inspiration.20:50–22:57 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Show Navigation and Accessing Nathan's Master Spreadsheet Nathan summarizes An's key company stats, explains how listeners can navigate past guest data via his Google Sheet, and promotes his upcoming live event.1:46–4:46 · Guest teaching 1/10 Streamlining Design-to-Developer Workflows with Avocode Nathan displays clear domain familiarity with the friction between designers, product managers, and developers over assets and hex codes. An gives concise overviews of the product's function and baseline revenue figures.4:46–7:12 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Count, Subscription Tiers, and ARPU Reconciliation Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between An's 2,800 customer count, $27 ARPU, and $50k MRR. He presses An until An explains that the ARPU reflects new cohorts while older pre-order users pay heavily discounted rates.7:12–11:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Churn Dynamics and Net Negative Revenue Churn Nathan breaks down SaaS unit economics around negative revenue churn and seat expansion. When An mistakenly refers to $35k total monthly expenses as a burn rate, Nathan clarifies the terminology to confirm the company is operating profitably.11:06–13:13 · Guest teaching 1/10 Accelerator Funding, Valuation, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan instantly calculates the implied $2.5M post-money valuation from 500 Startups' investment terms and uses the inverse churn formula to model customer lifetime and LTV.13:13–15:58 · Guest teaching 1/10 Target Market Segment, Month-over-Month Growth, and Fundraising Plans Nathan inquires about bottom-up team adoption and potential acquirers. An reveals turning down a $2-3M stock-heavy acquisition offer from InVision prior to launching Avocode.15:58–18:16 · Guest teaching 0/10 Founder Contact Information and Online Handles An briefly shares his Twitter handle before Nathan transitions into mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.18:16–20:49 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format, adding historical context from a previous interview with Hiten Shah when An mentions him as an inspiration.20:50–22:57 · Guest teaching 0/10 Show Navigation and Accessing Nathan's Master Spreadsheet Nathan summarizes An's key company stats, explains how listeners can navigate past guest data via his Google Sheet, and promotes his upcoming live event.1:46–4:46 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Streamlining Design-to-Developer Workflows with Avocode Nathan displays clear domain familiarity with the friction between designers, product managers, and developers over assets and hex codes. An gives concise overviews of the product's function and baseline revenue figures.4:46–7:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Count, Subscription Tiers, and ARPU Reconciliation Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between An's 2,800 customer count, $27 ARPU, and $50k MRR. He presses An until An explains that the ARPU reflects new cohorts while older pre-order users pay heavily discounted rates.7:12–11:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Churn Dynamics and Net Negative Revenue Churn Nathan breaks down SaaS unit economics around negative revenue churn and seat expansion. When An mistakenly refers to $35k total monthly expenses as a burn rate, Nathan clarifies the terminology to confirm the company is operating profitably.11:06–13:13 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Accelerator Funding, Valuation, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan instantly calculates the implied $2.5M post-money valuation from 500 Startups' investment terms and uses the inverse churn formula to model customer lifetime and LTV.13:13–15:58 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Target Market Segment, Month-over-Month Growth, and Fundraising Plans Nathan inquires about bottom-up team adoption and potential acquirers. An reveals turning down a $2-3M stock-heavy acquisition offer from InVision prior to launching Avocode.15:58–18:16 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Founder Contact Information and Online Handles An briefly shares his Twitter handle before Nathan transitions into mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.18:16–20:49 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format, adding historical context from a previous interview with Hiten Shah when An mentions him as an inspiration.20:50–22:57 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Show Navigation and Accessing Nathan's Master Spreadsheet Nathan summarizes An's key company stats, explains how listeners can navigate past guest data via his Google Sheet, and promotes his upcoming live event.1:46–4:46 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Streamlining Design-to-Developer Workflows with Avocode Nathan displays clear domain familiarity with the friction between designers, product managers, and developers over assets and hex codes. An gives concise overviews of the product's function and baseline revenue figures.4:46–7:12 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Customer Count, Subscription Tiers, and ARPU Reconciliation Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between An's 2,800 customer count, $27 ARPU, and $50k MRR. He presses An until An explains that the ARPU reflects new cohorts while older pre-order users pay heavily discounted rates.7:12–11:06 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Churn Dynamics and Net Negative Revenue Churn Nathan breaks down SaaS unit economics around negative revenue churn and seat expansion. When An mistakenly refers to $35k total monthly expenses as a burn rate, Nathan clarifies the terminology to confirm the company is operating profitably.11:06–13:13 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Accelerator Funding, Valuation, and Customer Lifetime Value Nathan instantly calculates the implied $2.5M post-money valuation from 500 Startups' investment terms and uses the inverse churn formula to model customer lifetime and LTV.13:13–15:58 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Target Market Segment, Month-over-Month Growth, and Fundraising Plans Nathan inquires about bottom-up team adoption and potential acquirers. An reveals turning down a $2-3M stock-heavy acquisition offer from InVision prior to launching Avocode.15:58–18:16 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Founder Contact Information and Online Handles An briefly shares his Twitter handle before Nathan transitions into mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.18:16–20:49 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format, adding historical context from a previous interview with Hiten Shah when An mentions him as an inspiration.20:50–22:57 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Show Navigation and Accessing Nathan's Master Spreadsheet Nathan summarizes An's key company stats, explains how listeners can navigate past guest data via his Google Sheet, and promotes his upcoming live event.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 78.1% · guest 21.9%0:00 · Nathan 78.1% · guest 21.9%3:00 · Nathan 36.7% · guest 63.3%3:00 · Nathan 36.7% · guest 63.3%6:00 · Nathan 52.1% · guest 47.9%6:00 · Nathan 52.1% · guest 47.9%9:00 · Nathan 40.8% · guest 59.2%9:00 · Nathan 40.8% · guest 59.2%12:00 · Nathan 46.2% · guest 53.8%12:00 · Nathan 46.2% · guest 53.8%15:00 · Nathan 71% · guest 29%15:00 · Nathan 71% · guest 29%18:00 · Nathan 49.1% · guest 50.9%18:00 · Nathan 49.1% · guest 50.9%21:00 · Nathan 88.1% · guest 11.9%21:00 · Nathan 88.1% · guest 11.9%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%24:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 6:05 An defends cohort ARPU calculation

An pushes back on the calculation mismatch by explaining that the $27 ARPU applies to recent cohorts rather than the entire base containing discounted early pre-orders.

Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 6:03 Nathan challenges the revenue math mismatch

Nathan refuses to let the contradictory figures slide, directly pointing out that 2,800 customers at $27 ARPU equals $75k MRR rather than the stated $50k.

Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:10 An corrects burn rate to total expenses

An corrects the premise that the company is burning cash, specifying that $35k represents total operational expenses and they are net profitable.

Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:22 Nathan derives lifetime value on the fly

Nathan demonstrates advanced SaaS fluency by inverting the churn rate in real time to calculate average customer lifetime and multiplying by ARPU to find LTV.

the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Streamlining Design-to-Developer Workflows with Avocode 5101 Nathan displays clear domain familiarity with the friction between designers, product managers, and developers over assets and hex codes. An gives concise overviews of the product's function and baseline revenue figures.
Customer Count, Subscription Tiers, and ARPU Reconciliation 7216 Nathan catches a mathematical discrepancy between An's 2,800 customer count, $27 ARPU, and $50k MRR. He presses An until An explains that the ARPU reflects new cohorts while older pre-order users pay heavily discounted rates.
Customer Churn Dynamics and Net Negative Revenue Churn 7314 Nathan breaks down SaaS unit economics around negative revenue churn and seat expansion. When An mistakenly refers to $35k total monthly expenses as a burn rate, Nathan clarifies the terminology to confirm the company is operating profitably.
Accelerator Funding, Valuation, and Customer Lifetime Value 6102 Nathan instantly calculates the implied $2.5M post-money valuation from 500 Startups' investment terms and uses the inverse churn formula to model customer lifetime and LTV.
Target Market Segment, Month-over-Month Growth, and Fundraising Plans 4102 Nathan inquires about bottom-up team adoption and potential acquirers. An reveals turning down a $2-3M stock-heavy acquisition offer from InVision prior to launching Avocode.
Founder Contact Information and Online Handles 1000 An briefly shares his Twitter handle before Nathan transitions into mid-roll sponsor reads for FreshBooks and HostGator.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4101 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire format, adding historical context from a previous interview with Hiten Shah when An mentions him as an inspiration.
Show Navigation and Accessing Nathan's Master Spreadsheet 2000 Nathan summarizes An's key company stats, explains how listeners can navigate past guest data via his Google Sheet, and promotes his upcoming live event.

Statements from this episode (13)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Avocode reached $50K MRR by May 2016
“We're currently at about 50 K monthly recurring revenue.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 3:27
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Vu targets $100K MRR and $1.2M ARR for Avocode in 2016
“We'll hope to get to 100 K MRR, so about a 1000001.2 annual run rate.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 4:00
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Avocode has 2,800 paying customers and no free tier
“We have 2800 customers. And we don't have any free plans. We only have free trials, so all of our users are paying users.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 4:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Avocode made about $90K in first-week pre-orders
“We actually run a pre-order program before we started selling our code. So we've made about 90 K on that the first week”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 6:37
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Avocode has 7% monthly user churn but -1% revenue churn
“So in terms of in terms of user churn in total, that's about seven percent, which is seven percent monthly. Yes. That's pretty high. But in terms of revenue churn, we have a negative one percent churn on that.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 7:17
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Most Avocode customer churn comes from freelancer tier
“So most of the customer churn is coming from the freelancers plan, so that's something we don't really worry about, but the teams and companies, the churn are much lower there.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 8:15
Disclosure
Vu: Avocode Spends Nothing on Customer Acquisition, Relying Purely on Inbound
“So we don't pay basically we pay nothing. We all do is inbound. We, we're not paying any, anything basically at the moment.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 9:02
Disclosure
Vu: Avocode is profitable at $50,000 MRR with $35,000 monthly expenses
“Sorry, I probably got it wrong, but we're basically, our monthly expenses are 35 K, so not a burn rate.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 10:14
Disclosure
Vu: Avocode raised $125k from 500 Startups for 5% equity
“We actually raised a little money from 500 startups. So basically why we did that was. How much was that? That was one 25 case. And they take five percent, right? That's right. It's, that's pretty low valuation and it's on convertible anyway”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 11:33
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Avocode retains basic-tier customers for 10 months, business-tier for 18
“So in the garage plan, that's 10 months, which is a bit low, but the business plan currently is 18 months.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 12:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Vu: Avocode is growing MRR at 15% month-over-month
“Yes, we're growing at about a 15% rate at the moment.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 13:58
Disclosure
Vu: Avocode rejected a $2M to $3M acquisition offer from InVision
“I think two or three million. A lot of, most of the stuff were, was in stock, so we said no.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 14:56
Disclosure
Vu: Avocode is in active partnership discussions with Adobe
“You know, Adobe is one of the companies we are actually talking with.”
An Vu Jul 10, 2016 ▶ 15:20
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