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Aug 5, 2016 · 27m · top-founders

EP 377: 6M Shoes Designed, $24M Raised, By Customer Shoe Maker Shoesofprey.com

Jodi Fox · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Shoes of Prey co-founder Jodi Fox about scaling a bespoke footwear platform to over 220 employees, raising $24.6 million, and building custom manufacturing operations.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 46.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.3 Guest teaching 2.1 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:0020:001:09–4:11 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Jodi Fox of Shoes of Prey Nathan introduces Jodi and asks basic clarifying questions about the business model and physical store build-out costs. Jodi politely declines to share proprietary build-out numbers while explaining the experiential retail strategy.4:12–7:26 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Platform Customization and the User Experience Nathan navigates the live website, comparing custom shoe creation to his previous experience with drag-and-drop website builders. Jodi explains their design process and how trust in customer styling decisions prevents poor product outcomes.7:26–10:30 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Design Behavior, COGS, and Factory Ownership Nathan repeatedly presses Jodi for exact unit COGS and margins on a pair of shoes. Jodi defers on exact numbers due to confidentiality but educates Nathan on footwear industry standard COGS versus on-demand manufacturing costs.10:31–13:03 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Production Volume, Investors, and Price Points Nathan tries to extract total units sold and Series B valuation, but Jodi firmly holds boundaries by citing board confidentiality. Nathan playfully calls her out for being evasive and vague.13:03–18:08 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Company Headcount, Operations, and Early Revenue Nathan inquires about headcount, international manufacturing in China, and founding dynamics. Jodi explains how their legal backgrounds and amicable interpersonal relationships with her ex-husband and co-founder keep the company stable.18:08–21:19 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Long-Term Vision, Organic Growth, and Marketing Nathan tests Jodi with a hypothetical $100M acquisition buyout from Nordstrom and probes customer acquisition channels. Jodi outlines the company's broader vision to become the customized commerce platform across multiple product verticals.21:20–23:22 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 Connecting with Jodi Fox on Social Media Jodi shares her social media handles and YouTube channel before Nathan transitions into host sponsor ad reads and event promotions.23:25–25:26 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five lightning round, wrapping up with an affectionate recap teasing Jodi about keeping proprietary metrics strictly guarded.1:09–4:11 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introducing Jodi Fox of Shoes of Prey Nathan introduces Jodi and asks basic clarifying questions about the business model and physical store build-out costs. Jodi politely declines to share proprietary build-out numbers while explaining the experiential retail strategy.4:12–7:26 · Guest teaching 2/10 Platform Customization and the User Experience Nathan navigates the live website, comparing custom shoe creation to his previous experience with drag-and-drop website builders. Jodi explains their design process and how trust in customer styling decisions prevents poor product outcomes.7:26–10:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Design Behavior, COGS, and Factory Ownership Nathan repeatedly presses Jodi for exact unit COGS and margins on a pair of shoes. Jodi defers on exact numbers due to confidentiality but educates Nathan on footwear industry standard COGS versus on-demand manufacturing costs.10:31–13:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Production Volume, Investors, and Price Points Nathan tries to extract total units sold and Series B valuation, but Jodi firmly holds boundaries by citing board confidentiality. Nathan playfully calls her out for being evasive and vague.13:03–18:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 Company Headcount, Operations, and Early Revenue Nathan inquires about headcount, international manufacturing in China, and founding dynamics. Jodi explains how their legal backgrounds and amicable interpersonal relationships with her ex-husband and co-founder keep the company stable.18:08–21:19 · Guest teaching 2/10 Long-Term Vision, Organic Growth, and Marketing Nathan tests Jodi with a hypothetical $100M acquisition buyout from Nordstrom and probes customer acquisition channels. Jodi outlines the company's broader vision to become the customized commerce platform across multiple product verticals.21:20–23:22 · Guest teaching 0/10 Connecting with Jodi Fox on Social Media Jodi shares her social media handles and YouTube channel before Nathan transitions into host sponsor ad reads and event promotions.23:25–25:26 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five lightning round, wrapping up with an affectionate recap teasing Jodi about keeping proprietary metrics strictly guarded.1:09–4:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Jodi Fox of Shoes of Prey Nathan introduces Jodi and asks basic clarifying questions about the business model and physical store build-out costs. Jodi politely declines to share proprietary build-out numbers while explaining the experiential retail strategy.4:12–7:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Platform Customization and the User Experience Nathan navigates the live website, comparing custom shoe creation to his previous experience with drag-and-drop website builders. Jodi explains their design process and how trust in customer styling decisions prevents poor product outcomes.7:26–10:30 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Design Behavior, COGS, and Factory Ownership Nathan repeatedly presses Jodi for exact unit COGS and margins on a pair of shoes. Jodi defers on exact numbers due to confidentiality but educates Nathan on footwear industry standard COGS versus on-demand manufacturing costs.10:31–13:03 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Production Volume, Investors, and Price Points Nathan tries to extract total units sold and Series B valuation, but Jodi firmly holds boundaries by citing board confidentiality. Nathan playfully calls her out for being evasive and vague.13:03–18:08 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Company Headcount, Operations, and Early Revenue Nathan inquires about headcount, international manufacturing in China, and founding dynamics. Jodi explains how their legal backgrounds and amicable interpersonal relationships with her ex-husband and co-founder keep the company stable.18:08–21:19 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Long-Term Vision, Organic Growth, and Marketing Nathan tests Jodi with a hypothetical $100M acquisition buyout from Nordstrom and probes customer acquisition channels. Jodi outlines the company's broader vision to become the customized commerce platform across multiple product verticals.21:20–23:22 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Connecting with Jodi Fox on Social Media Jodi shares her social media handles and YouTube channel before Nathan transitions into host sponsor ad reads and event promotions.23:25–25:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five lightning round, wrapping up with an affectionate recap teasing Jodi about keeping proprietary metrics strictly guarded.1:09–4:11 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introducing Jodi Fox of Shoes of Prey Nathan introduces Jodi and asks basic clarifying questions about the business model and physical store build-out costs. Jodi politely declines to share proprietary build-out numbers while explaining the experiential retail strategy.4:12–7:26 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Platform Customization and the User Experience Nathan navigates the live website, comparing custom shoe creation to his previous experience with drag-and-drop website builders. Jodi explains their design process and how trust in customer styling decisions prevents poor product outcomes.7:26–10:30 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Design Behavior, COGS, and Factory Ownership Nathan repeatedly presses Jodi for exact unit COGS and margins on a pair of shoes. Jodi defers on exact numbers due to confidentiality but educates Nathan on footwear industry standard COGS versus on-demand manufacturing costs.10:31–13:03 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Production Volume, Investors, and Price Points Nathan tries to extract total units sold and Series B valuation, but Jodi firmly holds boundaries by citing board confidentiality. Nathan playfully calls her out for being evasive and vague.13:03–18:08 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Company Headcount, Operations, and Early Revenue Nathan inquires about headcount, international manufacturing in China, and founding dynamics. Jodi explains how their legal backgrounds and amicable interpersonal relationships with her ex-husband and co-founder keep the company stable.18:08–21:19 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Long-Term Vision, Organic Growth, and Marketing Nathan tests Jodi with a hypothetical $100M acquisition buyout from Nordstrom and probes customer acquisition channels. Jodi outlines the company's broader vision to become the customized commerce platform across multiple product verticals.21:20–23:22 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Connecting with Jodi Fox on Social Media Jodi shares her social media handles and YouTube channel before Nathan transitions into host sponsor ad reads and event promotions.23:25–25:26 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five lightning round, wrapping up with an affectionate recap teasing Jodi about keeping proprietary metrics strictly guarded.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 73.9% · guest 26.1%0:00 · Nathan 73.9% · guest 26.1%3:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%3:00 · Nathan 29.4% · guest 70.6%6:00 · Nathan 33.9% · guest 66.1%6:00 · Nathan 33.9% · guest 66.1%9:00 · Nathan 42.6% · guest 57.4%9:00 · Nathan 42.6% · guest 57.4%12:00 · Nathan 21.9% · guest 78.1%12:00 · Nathan 21.9% · guest 78.1%15:00 · Nathan 18.3% · guest 81.7%15:00 · Nathan 18.3% · guest 81.7%18:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%18:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%21:00 · Nathan 77.3% · guest 22.7%21:00 · Nathan 77.3% · guest 22.7%24:00 · Nathan 89.2% · guest 10.8%24:00 · Nathan 89.2% · guest 10.8%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%27:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:45 Jodi refuses to share unit sales and valuation

Jodi explicitly rejects Nathan's attempt to pin down total pairs sold and company valuation, stating she will only give design counts and will not get fired by her board.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:55 Nathan demands exact COGS percentage

After Jodi declines to share specific product costs, Nathan refuses to move on and repeatedly presses her for exact margin percentages on a $200 shoe.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:04 Jodi breaks down mass production vs custom shoe COGS

Jodi educates Nathan on shoe economics, detailing standard industry 50-75% COGS benchmarks and explaining why bespoke on-demand manufacturing operates on tighter margins.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:05 Nathan identifies legal training as the source of Jodi's evasiveness

Nathan calls out Jodi's disciplined refusal to reveal numbers under pressure by pinpointing her background as a trained litigator.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Jodi Fox of Shoes of Prey 4312 Nathan introduces Jodi and asks basic clarifying questions about the business model and physical store build-out costs. Jodi politely declines to share proprietary build-out numbers while explaining the experiential retail strategy.
Platform Customization and the User Experience 5213 Nathan navigates the live website, comparing custom shoe creation to his previous experience with drag-and-drop website builders. Jodi explains their design process and how trust in customer styling decisions prevents poor product outcomes.
Design Behavior, COGS, and Factory Ownership 6436 Nathan repeatedly presses Jodi for exact unit COGS and margins on a pair of shoes. Jodi defers on exact numbers due to confidentiality but educates Nathan on footwear industry standard COGS versus on-demand manufacturing costs.
Production Volume, Investors, and Price Points 5346 Nathan tries to extract total units sold and Series B valuation, but Jodi firmly holds boundaries by citing board confidentiality. Nathan playfully calls her out for being evasive and vague.
Company Headcount, Operations, and Early Revenue 4223 Nathan inquires about headcount, international manufacturing in China, and founding dynamics. Jodi explains how their legal backgrounds and amicable interpersonal relationships with her ex-husband and co-founder keep the company stable.
Long-Term Vision, Organic Growth, and Marketing 5224 Nathan tests Jodi with a hypothetical $100M acquisition buyout from Nordstrom and probes customer acquisition channels. Jodi outlines the company's broader vision to become the customized commerce platform across multiple product verticals.
Connecting with Jodi Fox on Social Media 1000 Jodi shares her social media handles and YouTube channel before Nathan transitions into host sponsor ad reads and event promotions.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4112 Nathan conducts the standard Famous Five lightning round, wrapping up with an affectionate recap teasing Jodi about keeping proprietary metrics strictly guarded.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shoes of Prey's first physical store doubled its first-year revenue forecast
“But the store did double its forecasted revenue in the first 12 months and went on to win.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 3:33
Assertion Supported
Shoes of Prey has raised $24.6 million in total funding
“24.6 US million US dollars.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 4:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Every pair of Shoes of Prey footwear is custom-made
“Oh, so like every single pair is custom made. So the, even when people go to the gallery, that usually they'll pick a pair of shoes, but they'll always tweak it.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 4:45
Assertion Supported
Shoes of Prey built its own factory for single-pair manufacturing
“We actually have our own factory. So we built that because we couldn't find anyone else who would make one pair of shoes at a time at scale with us. And we were growing too quickly and not stripping our suppliers.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 8:34
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Users have designed over six million shoe pairs on Shoes of Prey
“Well, I can tell you that we've had more than six million pairs of shoes.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 10:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shoes of Prey has no surviving direct competitors
“Well, the thing is, a lot of our competitors, we don't really have any competitors, actually, so we had, there were a couple of people who came into the market after we started, but none of them exist anymore, so, and the closest kind of thing would be, I gues…”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 11:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Shoes of Prey's headcount is approximately 220 employees
“I think we're about 220 at the moment. I actually think we're a bit higher than that. I'd say we're, I haven't got the exact number right now.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 13:08
Assertion Supported
All three of Shoes of Prey's co-founders are trained lawyers
“No, no, so the three of us are lawyers.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 15:05
Disclosure
Shoes of Prey aims to become the Amazon of custom-designed goods
“The whole idea is that we want to stretch out into, you know, other areas, into clothing, into homewares, and all that sort of stuff. We want to be the Amazon of design your own.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 18:35
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Word-of-mouth drives 75% of Shoes of Prey's web traffic
“75% of the traffic to the site is word of mouth.”
Jodi Fox Aug 5, 2016 ▶ 19:35
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