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Aug 7, 2016 · 16m · top-founders

EP 379: Secret Travel App, $120k 2015 with Kenneth Lee

Nathan Latka · 8m spoken Kenneth Lee · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Kenneth Lee, founder of TravelFlan, examining how the AI-driven travel concierge platform generated $120,000 in its initial year and scaled to $50,000 in monthly revenue with backing from 500 Startups.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 58.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.4 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 1.2 Nathan pushing back 3.0
05100:0010:001:10–4:48 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Kenneth Lee of TravelFlan Nathan structures Kenneth's disparate revenue streams into clear unit economics. When Kenneth wanders into anecdotal product descriptions, Nathan redirects him directly to the revenue numbers.4:49–6:52 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Monthly Growth and Performance in 2016 Nathan presses Kenneth on precise monthly customer counts and breaks down how individual revenue streams total up to monthly revenue.6:52–10:23 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 500 Startups and Current Fundraising Round Nathan assumes standard SaaS churn and recurring metrics, but Kenneth educates him on how consumer travel behaves with near-instantaneous churn between trips, prompting Nathan to adjust his framing.10:27–13:41 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Sponsor Break: HostGator Website Hosting Nathan delivers an ad read and runs through the Famous Five routine, gently redirecting Kenneth when he misinterprets the final reflective question.13:43–15:48 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Interview Wrap-Up and Previous Episode Teaser Solo host outro summarizing the guest's statistics followed by promotional sponsor reads.1:10–4:48 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Kenneth Lee of TravelFlan Nathan structures Kenneth's disparate revenue streams into clear unit economics. When Kenneth wanders into anecdotal product descriptions, Nathan redirects him directly to the revenue numbers.4:49–6:52 · Guest teaching 2/10 Monthly Growth and Performance in 2016 Nathan presses Kenneth on precise monthly customer counts and breaks down how individual revenue streams total up to monthly revenue.6:52–10:23 · Guest teaching 6/10 500 Startups and Current Fundraising Round Nathan assumes standard SaaS churn and recurring metrics, but Kenneth educates him on how consumer travel behaves with near-instantaneous churn between trips, prompting Nathan to adjust his framing.10:27–13:41 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sponsor Break: HostGator Website Hosting Nathan delivers an ad read and runs through the Famous Five routine, gently redirecting Kenneth when he misinterprets the final reflective question.13:43–15:48 · Guest teaching 0/10 Interview Wrap-Up and Previous Episode Teaser Solo host outro summarizing the guest's statistics followed by promotional sponsor reads.1:10–4:48 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Kenneth Lee of TravelFlan Nathan structures Kenneth's disparate revenue streams into clear unit economics. When Kenneth wanders into anecdotal product descriptions, Nathan redirects him directly to the revenue numbers.4:49–6:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Monthly Growth and Performance in 2016 Nathan presses Kenneth on precise monthly customer counts and breaks down how individual revenue streams total up to monthly revenue.6:52–10:23 · Guest disagreement 3/10 500 Startups and Current Fundraising Round Nathan assumes standard SaaS churn and recurring metrics, but Kenneth educates him on how consumer travel behaves with near-instantaneous churn between trips, prompting Nathan to adjust his framing.10:27–13:41 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Break: HostGator Website Hosting Nathan delivers an ad read and runs through the Famous Five routine, gently redirecting Kenneth when he misinterprets the final reflective question.13:43–15:48 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Interview Wrap-Up and Previous Episode Teaser Solo host outro summarizing the guest's statistics followed by promotional sponsor reads.1:10–4:48 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Introducing Kenneth Lee of TravelFlan Nathan structures Kenneth's disparate revenue streams into clear unit economics. When Kenneth wanders into anecdotal product descriptions, Nathan redirects him directly to the revenue numbers.4:49–6:52 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Monthly Growth and Performance in 2016 Nathan presses Kenneth on precise monthly customer counts and breaks down how individual revenue streams total up to monthly revenue.6:52–10:23 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 500 Startups and Current Fundraising Round Nathan assumes standard SaaS churn and recurring metrics, but Kenneth educates him on how consumer travel behaves with near-instantaneous churn between trips, prompting Nathan to adjust his framing.10:27–13:41 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Sponsor Break: HostGator Website Hosting Nathan delivers an ad read and runs through the Famous Five routine, gently redirecting Kenneth when he misinterprets the final reflective question.13:43–15:48 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Interview Wrap-Up and Previous Episode Teaser Solo host outro summarizing the guest's statistics followed by promotional sponsor reads.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 69.7% · guest 30.3%0:00 · Nathan 69.7% · guest 30.3%3:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%3:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%6:00 · Nathan 37.8% · guest 62.2%6:00 · Nathan 37.8% · guest 62.2%9:00 · Nathan 62% · guest 38%9:00 · Nathan 62% · guest 38%12:00 · Nathan 74.7% · guest 25.3%12:00 · Nathan 74.7% · guest 25.3%15:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%15:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:34 Kenneth challenges SaaS churn applicability

Kenneth rejects Nathan's assumption about tracking monthly subscription churn, pointing out that consumers only travel once every few months or years.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 4:35 Nathan demands exact 2015 revenue figure

Nathan cuts through Kenneth's narrative description of water sport bookings to firmly restate his question about total annual revenue.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 8:45 Kenneth explains B2B2C travel unit economics

Kenneth explains why consumer travel services experience near 99% churn after a trip, educating Nathan on why the business shifted to B2B2C revenue-sharing.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 2:38 Nathan synthesizes the three revenue models

Nathan takes Kenneth's loose breakdown and clearly articulates the three distinct streams: monthly consumer fees, booking commissions, and enterprise data licensing.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Kenneth Lee of TravelFlan 5214 Nathan structures Kenneth's disparate revenue streams into clear unit economics. When Kenneth wanders into anecdotal product descriptions, Nathan redirects him directly to the revenue numbers.
Monthly Growth and Performance in 2016 5214 Nathan presses Kenneth on precise monthly customer counts and breaks down how individual revenue streams total up to monthly revenue.
500 Startups and Current Fundraising Round 5634 Nathan assumes standard SaaS churn and recurring metrics, but Kenneth educates him on how consumer travel behaves with near-instantaneous churn between trips, prompting Nathan to adjust his framing.
Sponsor Break: HostGator Website Hosting 2113 Nathan delivers an ad read and runs through the Famous Five routine, gently redirecting Kenneth when he misinterprets the final reflective question.
Interview Wrap-Up and Previous Episode Teaser 0000 Solo host outro summarizing the guest's statistics followed by promotional sponsor reads.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lee: TravelFlan Charges $10 Subscriptions, $15 Commissions, and $60K/Year for Data
“Customers, like commission part, we take up to 30% commission from the supplier side, so in average it's like 15 dollars, and subscription fee is like 10 dollars, average price is 10 dollars per service, and also the data is like the airlines and corporate spa…”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 2:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
TravelFlan Generated $120,000 in Revenue in 2015
“Total revenue in 2015 was 1201 120,000.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 4:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kenneth Lee: TravelFlan had under 2,000 paying subscribers by mid-2016
“So, so we have been providing the free services to us until, like, last month, and we recently launched our, like, premium service for services, so, like, it's very low, less than 2000 customers in Asia.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 4:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lee: TravelFlan earned $20,000 to $25,000 in airline commissions in May 2016
“So, 20, 20, 25,000 dollars from airline.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 5:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lee: TravelFlan generated about $50,000 in total revenue in May 2016
“Last month, last month's about 50,000 dollars.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 6:38
Disclosure
TravelFlan Is Raising $1.5M for an 18-Month Runway
“We are we are looking for 1.5 million dollars for, because our own rate will be at 18 months for 1.5 million dollars.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 7:15
Opinion
Lee: SF Tech Talent Is More Open and Stronger at Marketing Than Hong Kong
“Like, we, we've been running the business in Hong Kong for a long time, and, like here, like, I feel like people are more serious, and people are more open to the new ideas, and, like, I can definitely see people here are more strong in marketing and growth, f…”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 8:04
Insight
Lee: Churn metrics don't fit travel businesses due to infrequent repeat trips
“The churn doesn't really apply in the travel industry because once one person goes travel, they don't come back to for travel for at least like six months and mostly like one or two years.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 8:35
Insight
Lee: Travel companies must focus on B2B2C because B2C churn hits 99%
“Our business, especially travel industry, the traveling service industry you have to focus on more on the B to B to C side, rather than B to C, because once you spend your money for the B to C, To acquire a user, the churn rate is almost, like, 99%.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 9:15
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Lee: TravelFlan's direct B2C acquisition cost was roughly $20 per user
“When we did, like, the, when we did the B to C channels, it was about, like, 20 bucks per user, but after we do the service with airline, basically, it's sharing, revenue sharing model.”
Kenneth Lee Aug 7, 2016 ▶ 9:35
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