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Dec 17, 2016 · 18m · top-founders

EP 511: How to Pivot $50K MRR SaaS Company with Ian Cullen CEO of Leadiro

Nathan Latka · 9m spoken Ian Cullen · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode, host Nathan Latka interviews serial entrepreneur Ian Cullen, co-founder of Leadiro, to discuss how he bootstrapped his B2B data platform to $50,000 in monthly recurring revenue in four months following two previous successful multi-million dollar business exits.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 57.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.7 Guest teaching 1.7 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.5
05100:0010:001:20–3:55 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Ian Cullen and Guest Background Nathan probes Ian on his previous venture exits, understanding venture capital structures such as liquidation preferences and asking directly if the exit was a lucrative return or a soft landing.3:55–8:31 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Overview of Leadiro and ABM Data Services Nathan presses Ian for specific client names, challenges conflicting pricing figures, and attempts to force a live cold-call roleplay, which Ian politely declines.8:31–10:53 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Product Differentiation and ABM Features Nathan bluntly challenges Ian on proprietary claims in the B2B data space, arguing the industry lacks defensible moats and citing competitor Siftory to compare features.10:53–14:16 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Financial Metrics, Team Structure, and Churn Management Nathan performs live unit economics arithmetic to reconcile Ian's $50k MRR across 20 customers with earlier conflicting ARPU statements, and accurately details the common churn risk of scrapers abusing data access.14:16–16:51 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Competitive Landscape and Finding Ian Online Nathan and Ian cordially discuss competitor offerings and data quality differences before Nathan transitions into a sponsor segment.16:51–18:50 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Ian through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of the business metrics.1:20–3:55 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Ian Cullen and Guest Background Nathan probes Ian on his previous venture exits, understanding venture capital structures such as liquidation preferences and asking directly if the exit was a lucrative return or a soft landing.3:55–8:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 Overview of Leadiro and ABM Data Services Nathan presses Ian for specific client names, challenges conflicting pricing figures, and attempts to force a live cold-call roleplay, which Ian politely declines.8:31–10:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 Product Differentiation and ABM Features Nathan bluntly challenges Ian on proprietary claims in the B2B data space, arguing the industry lacks defensible moats and citing competitor Siftory to compare features.10:53–14:16 · Guest teaching 2/10 Financial Metrics, Team Structure, and Churn Management Nathan performs live unit economics arithmetic to reconcile Ian's $50k MRR across 20 customers with earlier conflicting ARPU statements, and accurately details the common churn risk of scrapers abusing data access.14:16–16:51 · Guest teaching 2/10 Competitive Landscape and Finding Ian Online Nathan and Ian cordially discuss competitor offerings and data quality differences before Nathan transitions into a sponsor segment.16:51–18:50 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Ian through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of the business metrics.1:20–3:55 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Ian Cullen and Guest Background Nathan probes Ian on his previous venture exits, understanding venture capital structures such as liquidation preferences and asking directly if the exit was a lucrative return or a soft landing.3:55–8:31 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Overview of Leadiro and ABM Data Services Nathan presses Ian for specific client names, challenges conflicting pricing figures, and attempts to force a live cold-call roleplay, which Ian politely declines.8:31–10:53 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Product Differentiation and ABM Features Nathan bluntly challenges Ian on proprietary claims in the B2B data space, arguing the industry lacks defensible moats and citing competitor Siftory to compare features.10:53–14:16 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Financial Metrics, Team Structure, and Churn Management Nathan performs live unit economics arithmetic to reconcile Ian's $50k MRR across 20 customers with earlier conflicting ARPU statements, and accurately details the common churn risk of scrapers abusing data access.14:16–16:51 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Competitive Landscape and Finding Ian Online Nathan and Ian cordially discuss competitor offerings and data quality differences before Nathan transitions into a sponsor segment.16:51–18:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Ian through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of the business metrics.1:20–3:55 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Ian Cullen and Guest Background Nathan probes Ian on his previous venture exits, understanding venture capital structures such as liquidation preferences and asking directly if the exit was a lucrative return or a soft landing.3:55–8:31 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Overview of Leadiro and ABM Data Services Nathan presses Ian for specific client names, challenges conflicting pricing figures, and attempts to force a live cold-call roleplay, which Ian politely declines.8:31–10:53 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Product Differentiation and ABM Features Nathan bluntly challenges Ian on proprietary claims in the B2B data space, arguing the industry lacks defensible moats and citing competitor Siftory to compare features.10:53–14:16 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Financial Metrics, Team Structure, and Churn Management Nathan performs live unit economics arithmetic to reconcile Ian's $50k MRR across 20 customers with earlier conflicting ARPU statements, and accurately details the common churn risk of scrapers abusing data access.14:16–16:51 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Competitive Landscape and Finding Ian Online Nathan and Ian cordially discuss competitor offerings and data quality differences before Nathan transitions into a sponsor segment.16:51–18:50 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Ian through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of the business metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 88.8% · guest 11.2%0:00 · Nathan 88.8% · guest 11.2%3:00 · Nathan 33.3% · guest 66.7%3:00 · Nathan 33.3% · guest 66.7%6:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%6:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%9:00 · Nathan 50.8% · guest 49.2%9:00 · Nathan 50.8% · guest 49.2%12:00 · Nathan 53.5% · guest 46.5%12:00 · Nathan 53.5% · guest 46.5%15:00 · Nathan 72.2% · guest 27.8%15:00 · Nathan 72.2% · guest 27.8%18:00 · Nathan 98% · guest 2%18:00 · Nathan 98% · guest 2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 8:01 Guest refuses live roleplay demand

Ian firmly dismisses Nathan's demand to roleplay an outbound sales call on air, laughing off the prompt and refusing to participate.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:32 Host challenges lack of product differentiation

Nathan rejects Ian's framing of proprietary technology, arguing that B2B lead gen platforms all sound identical and lack defensible moats.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 4:57 Guest explains international compliance for B2B data

Ian educates Nathan on international outbound cold emailing compliance and how relevancy mandates apply to B2B technology campaigns.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:35 Host corrects ARPU figures with live math

Nathan demonstrates mastery over SaaS metrics by dividing the $50k MRR by 20 customers to prove actual average monthly ARPU is $2,500, correcting Ian's earlier inflated claim of $6k-$10k.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Ian Cullen and Guest Background 4113 Nathan probes Ian on his previous venture exits, understanding venture capital structures such as liquidation preferences and asking directly if the exit was a lucrative return or a soft landing.
Overview of Leadiro and ABM Data Services 5335 Nathan presses Ian for specific client names, challenges conflicting pricing figures, and attempts to force a live cold-call roleplay, which Ian politely declines.
Product Differentiation and ABM Features 7226 Nathan bluntly challenges Ian on proprietary claims in the B2B data space, arguing the industry lacks defensible moats and citing competitor Siftory to compare features.
Financial Metrics, Team Structure, and Churn Management 6215 Nathan performs live unit economics arithmetic to reconcile Ian's $50k MRR across 20 customers with earlier conflicting ARPU statements, and accurately details the common churn risk of scrapers abusing data access.
Competitive Landscape and Finding Ian Online 4211 Nathan and Ian cordially discuss competitor offerings and data quality differences before Nathan transitions into a sponsor segment.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2001 Nathan guides Ian through the standard rapid-fire Famous Five questions and provides an accurate recap of the business metrics.

Statements from this episode (8)

Disclosure
Cullen: Leadiro annual plans range from $20,000 to $40,000 per year
“The annual, annual patterns range between 20 and 40,000 per year.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 6:09
Disclosure
Cullen: Leadiro customers pay $6,000 to $10,000 monthly on average
“Six to 10,000 per month, depending on their volume.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 6:32
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cullen: Leadiro is serving just under 20 customers
“Just under 20.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 7:06
Disclosure
Cullen: Leadiro relies on outbound cold calls rather than marketing
“Typically we're not doing really any marketing. We're doing more outbound, you know, reaching to them. So typically calling them.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 7:11
Opinion
Latka: B2B data winners succeed through marketing, not product moats
“This is not like a Warren Buffett, like where he says he wants moats around company. I've talked to so many people in the space. It all sounds like the same damn thing to me. And the people that are going to win are going to be the ones that are better markete…”
Nathan Latka Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 9:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cullen: Leadiro operates with three full-time and three part-time staff
“So six people, but three are full-time, and the other three are part-time.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 11:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Cullen: Leadiro spends roughly 20% of annual contract value on CAC
“So I mean, their annual plans would look at probably, you know, cost of around 20% to get that customer.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 12:14
Insight
Cullen: Short-term opt-out requests signal data scraping churn risk
“You can always spot those ones if they want the option to break off in maybe one or two months and that's what they're looking to do.”
Ian Cullen Dec 17, 2016 ▶ 13:58
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