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Jun 10, 2017 · 30m · top-founders

686: $225M Raised by Data Focused Ex-Isralei Fighter Pilot, is Kaminario Next IPO? With CEO Dani Golan

Danny Golan · 17m spoken Nathan Latka · 10m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of 'The Top,' host Nathan Latka interviews Dani Golan, CEO of Kaminario, exploring how the former fighter pilot scaled the enterprise all-flash data storage provider through $218 million in venture funding. Golan details Kaminario's high-expansion business model, disciplined capital strategy, and the leadership principles required to compete in a $50 billion cloud infrastructure market.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 4.3 Guest disagreement 2.1 Nathan pushing back 3.9
05100:0010:0020:0030:001:26–3:44 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Kaminario's Solution for Cloud Infrastructure and Data Growth Nathan introduces Golan's background as an Israeli fighter pilot and asks broad introductory questions about Kaminario's data center infrastructure solution and monetization model.3:44–7:44 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Capital Raised, Market Realities, and Prioritizing Profitability Nathan probes whether Kaminario hit unicorn valuation in its Series F round. Golan forcefully rejects chasing unicorn valuations as 'bullshit', arguing that path to profitability and sound business models matter far more.7:44–11:02 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Investor Deal Terms, Multiples, and Protecting Common Shareholders Nathan repeatedly presses Golan to disclose revenue multiples, while Golan jokes about enduring tougher military interrogations. Nathan demonstrates strong finance knowledge by detailing how 3x liquidation preferences wipe out common stock.11:02–14:44 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founding Story and the SaaS Private Cloud Market Opportunity Golan educates Nathan on why SaaS businesses deploy on private cloud appliances rather than shared public infrastructure, breaking down market sizes and comparing SaaS infrastructure to AWS IaaS.14:44–18:52 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Predictable Expansion Revenue and Channel Sales Operations Nathan and Golan untangle a miscommunication regarding whether Kaminario charges recurring SaaS fees or sells upfront appliances to SaaS clients, with Nathan calculating total revenue scale based on installed environments.18:53–23:42 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Measuring Flash Storage Scale and Capturing Enterprise Market Share Nathan admits storage hardware terminology is outside his wheelhouse, prompting Golan to explain petabyte capacity using an analogy of 400,000 iPhones and outline flash penetration in the $50B enterprise market.23:42–26:04 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Rapid-Fire Questions on Funding Timing, M&A Offers, and Rivals Nathan tests Golan with rapid-fire questions regarding election timing and hypothetical $2B acquisition offers, calling out Golan's non-verbal cues and deliberate deflections.26:05–28:04 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Questions with Dani Golan Nathan closes the interview with standard Famous Five questions covering Golan's favorite business books, tools, family life, sleep schedule, and advice to his younger self.1:26–3:44 · Guest teaching 3/10 Kaminario's Solution for Cloud Infrastructure and Data Growth Nathan introduces Golan's background as an Israeli fighter pilot and asks broad introductory questions about Kaminario's data center infrastructure solution and monetization model.3:44–7:44 · Guest teaching 5/10 Capital Raised, Market Realities, and Prioritizing Profitability Nathan probes whether Kaminario hit unicorn valuation in its Series F round. Golan forcefully rejects chasing unicorn valuations as 'bullshit', arguing that path to profitability and sound business models matter far more.7:44–11:02 · Guest teaching 5/10 Investor Deal Terms, Multiples, and Protecting Common Shareholders Nathan repeatedly presses Golan to disclose revenue multiples, while Golan jokes about enduring tougher military interrogations. Nathan demonstrates strong finance knowledge by detailing how 3x liquidation preferences wipe out common stock.11:02–14:44 · Guest teaching 6/10 Founding Story and the SaaS Private Cloud Market Opportunity Golan educates Nathan on why SaaS businesses deploy on private cloud appliances rather than shared public infrastructure, breaking down market sizes and comparing SaaS infrastructure to AWS IaaS.14:44–18:52 · Guest teaching 5/10 Predictable Expansion Revenue and Channel Sales Operations Nathan and Golan untangle a miscommunication regarding whether Kaminario charges recurring SaaS fees or sells upfront appliances to SaaS clients, with Nathan calculating total revenue scale based on installed environments.18:53–23:42 · Guest teaching 6/10 Measuring Flash Storage Scale and Capturing Enterprise Market Share Nathan admits storage hardware terminology is outside his wheelhouse, prompting Golan to explain petabyte capacity using an analogy of 400,000 iPhones and outline flash penetration in the $50B enterprise market.23:42–26:04 · Guest teaching 3/10 Rapid-Fire Questions on Funding Timing, M&A Offers, and Rivals Nathan tests Golan with rapid-fire questions regarding election timing and hypothetical $2B acquisition offers, calling out Golan's non-verbal cues and deliberate deflections.26:05–28:04 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Questions with Dani Golan Nathan closes the interview with standard Famous Five questions covering Golan's favorite business books, tools, family life, sleep schedule, and advice to his younger self.1:26–3:44 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Kaminario's Solution for Cloud Infrastructure and Data Growth Nathan introduces Golan's background as an Israeli fighter pilot and asks broad introductory questions about Kaminario's data center infrastructure solution and monetization model.3:44–7:44 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Capital Raised, Market Realities, and Prioritizing Profitability Nathan probes whether Kaminario hit unicorn valuation in its Series F round. Golan forcefully rejects chasing unicorn valuations as 'bullshit', arguing that path to profitability and sound business models matter far more.7:44–11:02 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Investor Deal Terms, Multiples, and Protecting Common Shareholders Nathan repeatedly presses Golan to disclose revenue multiples, while Golan jokes about enduring tougher military interrogations. Nathan demonstrates strong finance knowledge by detailing how 3x liquidation preferences wipe out common stock.11:02–14:44 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Founding Story and the SaaS Private Cloud Market Opportunity Golan educates Nathan on why SaaS businesses deploy on private cloud appliances rather than shared public infrastructure, breaking down market sizes and comparing SaaS infrastructure to AWS IaaS.14:44–18:52 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Predictable Expansion Revenue and Channel Sales Operations Nathan and Golan untangle a miscommunication regarding whether Kaminario charges recurring SaaS fees or sells upfront appliances to SaaS clients, with Nathan calculating total revenue scale based on installed environments.18:53–23:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Measuring Flash Storage Scale and Capturing Enterprise Market Share Nathan admits storage hardware terminology is outside his wheelhouse, prompting Golan to explain petabyte capacity using an analogy of 400,000 iPhones and outline flash penetration in the $50B enterprise market.23:42–26:04 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Rapid-Fire Questions on Funding Timing, M&A Offers, and Rivals Nathan tests Golan with rapid-fire questions regarding election timing and hypothetical $2B acquisition offers, calling out Golan's non-verbal cues and deliberate deflections.26:05–28:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Questions with Dani Golan Nathan closes the interview with standard Famous Five questions covering Golan's favorite business books, tools, family life, sleep schedule, and advice to his younger self.1:26–3:44 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Kaminario's Solution for Cloud Infrastructure and Data Growth Nathan introduces Golan's background as an Israeli fighter pilot and asks broad introductory questions about Kaminario's data center infrastructure solution and monetization model.3:44–7:44 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Capital Raised, Market Realities, and Prioritizing Profitability Nathan probes whether Kaminario hit unicorn valuation in its Series F round. Golan forcefully rejects chasing unicorn valuations as 'bullshit', arguing that path to profitability and sound business models matter far more.7:44–11:02 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Investor Deal Terms, Multiples, and Protecting Common Shareholders Nathan repeatedly presses Golan to disclose revenue multiples, while Golan jokes about enduring tougher military interrogations. Nathan demonstrates strong finance knowledge by detailing how 3x liquidation preferences wipe out common stock.11:02–14:44 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Founding Story and the SaaS Private Cloud Market Opportunity Golan educates Nathan on why SaaS businesses deploy on private cloud appliances rather than shared public infrastructure, breaking down market sizes and comparing SaaS infrastructure to AWS IaaS.14:44–18:52 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Predictable Expansion Revenue and Channel Sales Operations Nathan and Golan untangle a miscommunication regarding whether Kaminario charges recurring SaaS fees or sells upfront appliances to SaaS clients, with Nathan calculating total revenue scale based on installed environments.18:53–23:42 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Measuring Flash Storage Scale and Capturing Enterprise Market Share Nathan admits storage hardware terminology is outside his wheelhouse, prompting Golan to explain petabyte capacity using an analogy of 400,000 iPhones and outline flash penetration in the $50B enterprise market.23:42–26:04 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Rapid-Fire Questions on Funding Timing, M&A Offers, and Rivals Nathan tests Golan with rapid-fire questions regarding election timing and hypothetical $2B acquisition offers, calling out Golan's non-verbal cues and deliberate deflections.26:05–28:04 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Questions with Dani Golan Nathan closes the interview with standard Famous Five questions covering Golan's favorite business books, tools, family life, sleep schedule, and advice to his younger self.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 54.3% · guest 45.7%0:00 · Nathan 54.3% · guest 45.7%3:00 · Nathan 13.7% · guest 86.3%3:00 · Nathan 13.7% · guest 86.3%6:00 · Nathan 22.5% · guest 77.5%6:00 · Nathan 22.5% · guest 77.5%9:00 · Nathan 36.1% · guest 63.9%9:00 · Nathan 36.1% · guest 63.9%12:00 · Nathan 14.9% · guest 85.1%12:00 · Nathan 14.9% · guest 85.1%15:00 · Nathan 40.8% · guest 59.2%15:00 · Nathan 40.8% · guest 59.2%18:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%18:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%21:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%21:00 · Nathan 32.4% · guest 67.6%24:00 · Nathan 60.6% · guest 39.4%24:00 · Nathan 60.6% · guest 39.4%27:00 · Nathan 70.3% · guest 29.7%27:00 · Nathan 70.3% · guest 29.7%30:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%30:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:21 Valuation chasing called 'bullshit'

Golan bluntly calls chasing high valuations 'bullshit' and argues that entrepreneurs push for unrealistic metrics rather than building viable, profitable IT businesses.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:08 Interrogating revenue multiples

Nathan refuses to accept Golan's generalities, directly demanding specific multiples ('Come on Danny. What's the number? Give it to me. Two X, three X, or more.').

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 13:37 Cloud market breakdown analysis

Golan breaks down enterprise IT market figures, explaining that SaaS private cloud represents $120B of the total cloud market while AWS infrastructure is only $12B.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:01 Liquidation preference breakdown

Nathan demonstrates mastery of cap table mechanics by walking listeners through how a 3x liquidation preference wipes out common equity holders and employee option pools during a sale.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Kaminario's Solution for Cloud Infrastructure and Data Growth 3311 Nathan introduces Golan's background as an Israeli fighter pilot and asks broad introductory questions about Kaminario's data center infrastructure solution and monetization model.
Capital Raised, Market Realities, and Prioritizing Profitability 4544 Nathan probes whether Kaminario hit unicorn valuation in its Series F round. Golan forcefully rejects chasing unicorn valuations as 'bullshit', arguing that path to profitability and sound business models matter far more.
Investor Deal Terms, Multiples, and Protecting Common Shareholders 7537 Nathan repeatedly presses Golan to disclose revenue multiples, while Golan jokes about enduring tougher military interrogations. Nathan demonstrates strong finance knowledge by detailing how 3x liquidation preferences wipe out common stock.
Founding Story and the SaaS Private Cloud Market Opportunity 4623 Golan educates Nathan on why SaaS businesses deploy on private cloud appliances rather than shared public infrastructure, breaking down market sizes and comparing SaaS infrastructure to AWS IaaS.
Predictable Expansion Revenue and Channel Sales Operations 6525 Nathan and Golan untangle a miscommunication regarding whether Kaminario charges recurring SaaS fees or sells upfront appliances to SaaS clients, with Nathan calculating total revenue scale based on installed environments.
Measuring Flash Storage Scale and Capturing Enterprise Market Share 4613 Nathan admits storage hardware terminology is outside his wheelhouse, prompting Golan to explain petabyte capacity using an analogy of 400,000 iPhones and outline flash penetration in the $50B enterprise market.
Rapid-Fire Questions on Funding Timing, M&A Offers, and Rivals 5336 Nathan tests Golan with rapid-fire questions regarding election timing and hypothetical $2B acquisition offers, calling out Golan's non-verbal cues and deliberate deflections.
The Famous Five Questions with Dani Golan 3112 Nathan closes the interview with standard Famous Five questions covering Golan's favorite business books, tools, family life, sleep schedule, and advice to his younger self.

Statements from this episode (13)

Disclosure
Golan: Kaminario has raised $218M total, including a $75M round
“So so we raised today, two hundred and eighteen million dollars. Including latest round of seventy-five million dollar significantly oversubscribed round that we we've announced in January and obviously completed it throughout 2016.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 3:51
Assertion Partly supported
Golan: 2016 was the worst year for tech IPOs since 2002
“Although the markets were tough in 2016 the worst year since 2002 in terms of IPOs and also private placement.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 4:11
Disclosure
Golan: Kaminario is very close to achieving profitability
“The fact that we are very close to profitability.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 7:08
Insight
Golan: Valuation is meaningless if deal terms are crazy
“Valuation is bullshit if you have crazy terms. And the terms mathematically simply by math are far more important than the actual valuation.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 10:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Golan: Kaminario's typical starting deal size averages $300,000
“So on average, a customer that, that started with a typical configuration, let's say we'll translate it to dollars to 300,000 dollars.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 12:27
Insight
Golan: Private cloud becomes far cheaper for SaaS companies at scale
“Where a SaaS company at a certain time, at a certain stage, understand that a private cloud or hosting is far more economical than a shared infrastructure of a public cloud.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 13:07
Prediction Held up
Golan: Cloud market will hit $175B by 2019, driven by SaaS
“By twenty-nineteen, the total cloud market will be one hundred and seventy-five billion. Out of that two thirds, ok, more than a hundred and twenty billion is SaaS companies.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 13:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Golan: 99% of Kaminario Customers Pay Upfront
“There is an ongoing payment for maintenance, but usually in 99% of the time they paid upfront.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 15:45
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Golan: Kaminario Customers Triple Spend to Over $1M in 12 Months
“Within 12 months the average is almost tripling. So so if a SaaS company started 300,000 dollars, they will go over a million by the end of 12 months.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 16:17
Insight
Golan: Selling Enterprise Storage Requires Field Sales and Channel Partners
“When you sell an appliance, certainly storage, which is the heart of any business you can't do it solely on the phone. You have to do it with a feet on the street with strong partners.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 18:17
Assertion Contradicted
Golan: Corporate Data Grows 100% Year-over-Year Globally Across All Industries
“Data grows on average in any company on earth, doesn't matter the size, the vertical the geo at a hundred percent year over year, two X.”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 18:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Golan: Kaminario Has Never Lost a Single Customer
“In our record, we never lost a customer”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 21:42
Assertion Supported
Golan: All-Flash Storage Has Reached Only 15% of $50B Enterprise Market
“The enterprise storage market is roughly 50,000,000,005 zero billion dollars a year. And the penetration of all flashes is still relatively minor. So we're talking about 15% penetration”
Danny Golan Jun 10, 2017 ▶ 23:14
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