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Jul 6, 2017 · 23m · top-founders

712: How To Use a Distribution Channel to Get 200 Customers Paying $15k per Year

Seymour Duncker · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 9m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top, host Nathan Latka interviews Seymour Duncker, co-founder and CEO of iCharts, exploring how the company scaled to 200 enterprise customers paying $15,000 annually by integrating embedded business intelligence directly into NetSuite. Duncker breaks down his journey moving from Germany to Silicon Valley, the mechanics of raising $23 million, and key SaaS metrics including low churn and a rapid six-month payback period.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 43.9% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.3 Guest teaching 2.1 Guest disagreement 1.1 Nathan pushing back 2.9
05100:0010:0020:001:06–4:24 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Promotional Announcement: Accessing the Latka SaaS Database After an initial ad read, Nathan introduces Seymour Duncker and immediately frames the discussion around business models and NetSuite embedded analytics. The dynamic is collaborative and conversational.4:24–7:44 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Product Architecture, Strategic Analogies, and Pricing Tiers Nathan demonstrates SaaS market knowledge by benchmarking iCharts against competitors like Grow and Klipfolio. He also looks up their pricing tiers live and calculates their annualized contract values.7:44–10:30 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founding Origin and Relocating from Germany to Silicon Valley Seymour details moving from Germany to Silicon Valley, explaining that even German enterprise buyers prefer purchasing innovation from Silicon Valley rather than a local GmbH. Nathan presses on why he didn't just use a virtual address.10:30–13:36 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Team Organization and Strategies for Account Expansion When Seymour initially describes customer acquisition tactics rather than net retention mechanisms, Nathan politely interrupts and redirects him specifically to post-onboarding expansion levers.13:36–16:53 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Growth, Capitalization, and Retention Metrics Nathan methodically works through unit economics, quickly calculating upfront cash flow and CAC payback period based on Seymour's 50% first-year contract metric.16:53–20:10 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Scaling Strategy, Execution Discipline, and ARR Calculations Nathan performs back-of-the-napkin math to estimate $3M ARR and presses Seymour when he tries to demur due to private company policy, pointing out that both underlying numbers were already disclosed.20:11–22:32 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five section features light banter, including Nathan probing whether Seymour would accept a hypothetical $90 million acquisition offer from NetSuite.1:06–4:24 · Guest teaching 2/10 Promotional Announcement: Accessing the Latka SaaS Database After an initial ad read, Nathan introduces Seymour Duncker and immediately frames the discussion around business models and NetSuite embedded analytics. The dynamic is collaborative and conversational.4:24–7:44 · Guest teaching 2/10 Product Architecture, Strategic Analogies, and Pricing Tiers Nathan demonstrates SaaS market knowledge by benchmarking iCharts against competitors like Grow and Klipfolio. He also looks up their pricing tiers live and calculates their annualized contract values.7:44–10:30 · Guest teaching 4/10 Founding Origin and Relocating from Germany to Silicon Valley Seymour details moving from Germany to Silicon Valley, explaining that even German enterprise buyers prefer purchasing innovation from Silicon Valley rather than a local GmbH. Nathan presses on why he didn't just use a virtual address.10:30–13:36 · Guest teaching 2/10 Team Organization and Strategies for Account Expansion When Seymour initially describes customer acquisition tactics rather than net retention mechanisms, Nathan politely interrupts and redirects him specifically to post-onboarding expansion levers.13:36–16:53 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Growth, Capitalization, and Retention Metrics Nathan methodically works through unit economics, quickly calculating upfront cash flow and CAC payback period based on Seymour's 50% first-year contract metric.16:53–20:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Scaling Strategy, Execution Discipline, and ARR Calculations Nathan performs back-of-the-napkin math to estimate $3M ARR and presses Seymour when he tries to demur due to private company policy, pointing out that both underlying numbers were already disclosed.20:11–22:32 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five section features light banter, including Nathan probing whether Seymour would accept a hypothetical $90 million acquisition offer from NetSuite.1:06–4:24 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promotional Announcement: Accessing the Latka SaaS Database After an initial ad read, Nathan introduces Seymour Duncker and immediately frames the discussion around business models and NetSuite embedded analytics. The dynamic is collaborative and conversational.4:24–7:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Product Architecture, Strategic Analogies, and Pricing Tiers Nathan demonstrates SaaS market knowledge by benchmarking iCharts against competitors like Grow and Klipfolio. He also looks up their pricing tiers live and calculates their annualized contract values.7:44–10:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Founding Origin and Relocating from Germany to Silicon Valley Seymour details moving from Germany to Silicon Valley, explaining that even German enterprise buyers prefer purchasing innovation from Silicon Valley rather than a local GmbH. Nathan presses on why he didn't just use a virtual address.10:30–13:36 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Organization and Strategies for Account Expansion When Seymour initially describes customer acquisition tactics rather than net retention mechanisms, Nathan politely interrupts and redirects him specifically to post-onboarding expansion levers.13:36–16:53 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Growth, Capitalization, and Retention Metrics Nathan methodically works through unit economics, quickly calculating upfront cash flow and CAC payback period based on Seymour's 50% first-year contract metric.16:53–20:10 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Scaling Strategy, Execution Discipline, and ARR Calculations Nathan performs back-of-the-napkin math to estimate $3M ARR and presses Seymour when he tries to demur due to private company policy, pointing out that both underlying numbers were already disclosed.20:11–22:32 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five section features light banter, including Nathan probing whether Seymour would accept a hypothetical $90 million acquisition offer from NetSuite.1:06–4:24 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Promotional Announcement: Accessing the Latka SaaS Database After an initial ad read, Nathan introduces Seymour Duncker and immediately frames the discussion around business models and NetSuite embedded analytics. The dynamic is collaborative and conversational.4:24–7:44 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Product Architecture, Strategic Analogies, and Pricing Tiers Nathan demonstrates SaaS market knowledge by benchmarking iCharts against competitors like Grow and Klipfolio. He also looks up their pricing tiers live and calculates their annualized contract values.7:44–10:30 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Founding Origin and Relocating from Germany to Silicon Valley Seymour details moving from Germany to Silicon Valley, explaining that even German enterprise buyers prefer purchasing innovation from Silicon Valley rather than a local GmbH. Nathan presses on why he didn't just use a virtual address.10:30–13:36 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Team Organization and Strategies for Account Expansion When Seymour initially describes customer acquisition tactics rather than net retention mechanisms, Nathan politely interrupts and redirects him specifically to post-onboarding expansion levers.13:36–16:53 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Customer Growth, Capitalization, and Retention Metrics Nathan methodically works through unit economics, quickly calculating upfront cash flow and CAC payback period based on Seymour's 50% first-year contract metric.16:53–20:10 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Scaling Strategy, Execution Discipline, and ARR Calculations Nathan performs back-of-the-napkin math to estimate $3M ARR and presses Seymour when he tries to demur due to private company policy, pointing out that both underlying numbers were already disclosed.20:11–22:32 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The rapid-fire Famous Five section features light banter, including Nathan probing whether Seymour would accept a hypothetical $90 million acquisition offer from NetSuite.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 97.3% · guest 2.7%0:00 · Nathan 97.3% · guest 2.7%3:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%3:00 · Nathan 24.1% · guest 75.9%6:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%6:00 · Nathan 28.1% · guest 71.9%9:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%9:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%12:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%12:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%15:00 · Nathan 23.8% · guest 76.2%15:00 · Nathan 23.8% · guest 76.2%18:00 · Nathan 73.9% · guest 26.1%18:00 · Nathan 73.9% · guest 26.1%21:00 · Nathan 57.4% · guest 42.6%21:00 · Nathan 57.4% · guest 42.6%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 18:00 Seymour stonewalls direct ARR confirmation

Seymour refuses to confirm the estimated revenue numbers on private company grounds, attempting to deflect by pointing to non-standard professional services revenue.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 18:00 Nathan refuses to drop ARR deduction

Nathan directly challenges Seymour's refusal to confirm revenue by demanding where the simple multiplication of customer count and ACV would be inaccurate.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 9:29 Seymour educates on cross-border SaaS sales psychology

Seymour explains the counterintuitive reality that German customers preferred buying from a Silicon Valley entity over a German GmbH to ensure they were getting genuine innovation.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 7:31 Nathan pulls up pricing live and reverse-engineers ACV

Nathan checks the pricing page in real time and calculates the annual cost of the most popular plan ($15,000) before the guest mentions the exact figure.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Promotional Announcement: Accessing the Latka SaaS Database 4201 After an initial ad read, Nathan introduces Seymour Duncker and immediately frames the discussion around business models and NetSuite embedded analytics. The dynamic is collaborative and conversational.
Product Architecture, Strategic Analogies, and Pricing Tiers 6202 Nathan demonstrates SaaS market knowledge by benchmarking iCharts against competitors like Grow and Klipfolio. He also looks up their pricing tiers live and calculates their annualized contract values.
Founding Origin and Relocating from Germany to Silicon Valley 4412 Seymour details moving from Germany to Silicon Valley, explaining that even German enterprise buyers prefer purchasing innovation from Silicon Valley rather than a local GmbH. Nathan presses on why he didn't just use a virtual address.
Team Organization and Strategies for Account Expansion 6214 When Seymour initially describes customer acquisition tactics rather than net retention mechanisms, Nathan politely interrupts and redirects him specifically to post-onboarding expansion levers.
Customer Growth, Capitalization, and Retention Metrics 6212 Nathan methodically works through unit economics, quickly calculating upfront cash flow and CAC payback period based on Seymour's 50% first-year contract metric.
Scaling Strategy, Execution Discipline, and ARR Calculations 7236 Nathan performs back-of-the-napkin math to estimate $3M ARR and presses Seymour when he tries to demur due to private company policy, pointing out that both underlying numbers were already disclosed.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4123 The rapid-fire Famous Five section features light banter, including Nathan probing whether Seymour would accept a hypothetical $90 million acquisition offer from NetSuite.

Statements from this episode (8)

Disclosure
Duncker: NetSuite Uses iCharts as Native Embedded BI Engine
“So, for example, we partner with NetSuite. NetSuite is a cloud-based ERP. Solution, the largest actually, and they basically use us as a native embedded BI engine that basically powers us for all of their customers.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 3:36
Disclosure
Duncker: iCharts contracts start around $15,000 per year
“Oh, it can range from anything, I would say, starting around about you know, 15,000 dollars per annum to, you know, much larger than that, and that, or, that obviously, you know, bundles a number of users.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 6:56
Insight
German enterprise buyers prefer Silicon Valley vendors over domestic options
“Like, the US guys buy, like to buy from American companies. Germans like to buy from Silicon Valley.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 9:53
Disclosure
Duncker: iCharts has a team of 60 people
“We have a team of 60 people.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 10:36
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Duncker: iCharts serves ~200 customers, adding 20-30 per month
“So, we're quickly accelerating, so around about 200 customers and, you know, we are adding, I think, 20, 30 customers a month right now, so and with our upcoming channel agreements that's gonna be accelerating even further.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 13:43
Assertion Contradicted
Duncker: iCharts has raised $23 million to date
“So we've raised twenty three million dollars to date.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 14:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Duncker: iCharts maintains an annual churn rate of 5% to 7%
“So our annual churn is around about, I would say, five to seven percent.”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 15:09
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Duncker: iCharts CAC equals roughly 50% of first-year contract value
“So we are roughly at 15, 50% of our first year contract, right?”
Seymour Duncker Jul 6, 2017 ▶ 16:19
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