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Aug 9, 2017 · 17m · top-founders

746: Bill Gates Was Great to Work With, But This Founder Wanted His Own Thing

Hal Howard · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews former Microsoft Dynamics executive Hal Howard, exploring how his sales intelligence platform Kimiko scales to $60,000 in monthly recurring revenue and targets a $1 million ARR run rate.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 49.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.8 Guest teaching 1.7 Guest disagreement 0.8 Nathan pushing back 2.0
05100:0010:001:34–3:50 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Kimiko's Product Vision and Leaving Microsoft Nathan asks straightforward questions about Kimiko's product vision, data integrations, and Hal's transition after two decades at Microsoft. Hal politely outlines how business applications fail users by functioning as burden-heavy databases.3:50–6:03 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Team Structure, Pricing, and Company Launch Nathan quickly runs the numbers on seat counts and pricing to calculate monthly recurring revenue around sixty thousand dollars. Hal good-humoredly corrects Nathan's Boca vacation assumption to Venice while detailing his engineering team structure.6:03–10:31 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Market Dynamics and CRM Partnership Strategy Nathan probes whether Kimiko is competing with CRMs like Pipedrive or ToutApp, and later questions Hal on round structure. Hal clarifies that Kimiko is strictly an intelligence layer partner and corrects Nathan's confusion regarding which funding round was priced.10:31–12:42 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Financial Performance, Margins, and Acquisition Valuation Nathan drills into gross margins, growth metrics, and acquisition targets, floating a lowball two million dollar buyout. Hal dismisses the low offer, stating he would need at least twenty-five million, prompting Nathan to analyze his post-money and pre-money math.12:44–16:57 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Commercial Sponsor and Database Announcements This segment contains sponsor reads followed by the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Hal shares his experiences working with Satya Nadella and Bill Gates in an agreeable, conversational tone.16:58–17:51 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Episode Teaser A concluding solo outro segment by the host summarizing Kimiko's metrics and previewing the next episode. Host and guest dynamic scores are zeroed for monologue.1:34–3:50 · Guest teaching 2/10 Kimiko's Product Vision and Leaving Microsoft Nathan asks straightforward questions about Kimiko's product vision, data integrations, and Hal's transition after two decades at Microsoft. Hal politely outlines how business applications fail users by functioning as burden-heavy databases.3:50–6:03 · Guest teaching 2/10 Team Structure, Pricing, and Company Launch Nathan quickly runs the numbers on seat counts and pricing to calculate monthly recurring revenue around sixty thousand dollars. Hal good-humoredly corrects Nathan's Boca vacation assumption to Venice while detailing his engineering team structure.6:03–10:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 Market Dynamics and CRM Partnership Strategy Nathan probes whether Kimiko is competing with CRMs like Pipedrive or ToutApp, and later questions Hal on round structure. Hal clarifies that Kimiko is strictly an intelligence layer partner and corrects Nathan's confusion regarding which funding round was priced.10:31–12:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 Financial Performance, Margins, and Acquisition Valuation Nathan drills into gross margins, growth metrics, and acquisition targets, floating a lowball two million dollar buyout. Hal dismisses the low offer, stating he would need at least twenty-five million, prompting Nathan to analyze his post-money and pre-money math.12:44–16:57 · Guest teaching 1/10 Commercial Sponsor and Database Announcements This segment contains sponsor reads followed by the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Hal shares his experiences working with Satya Nadella and Bill Gates in an agreeable, conversational tone.16:58–17:51 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Episode Teaser A concluding solo outro segment by the host summarizing Kimiko's metrics and previewing the next episode. Host and guest dynamic scores are zeroed for monologue.1:34–3:50 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Kimiko's Product Vision and Leaving Microsoft Nathan asks straightforward questions about Kimiko's product vision, data integrations, and Hal's transition after two decades at Microsoft. Hal politely outlines how business applications fail users by functioning as burden-heavy databases.3:50–6:03 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Structure, Pricing, and Company Launch Nathan quickly runs the numbers on seat counts and pricing to calculate monthly recurring revenue around sixty thousand dollars. Hal good-humoredly corrects Nathan's Boca vacation assumption to Venice while detailing his engineering team structure.6:03–10:31 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Market Dynamics and CRM Partnership Strategy Nathan probes whether Kimiko is competing with CRMs like Pipedrive or ToutApp, and later questions Hal on round structure. Hal clarifies that Kimiko is strictly an intelligence layer partner and corrects Nathan's confusion regarding which funding round was priced.10:31–12:42 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Financial Performance, Margins, and Acquisition Valuation Nathan drills into gross margins, growth metrics, and acquisition targets, floating a lowball two million dollar buyout. Hal dismisses the low offer, stating he would need at least twenty-five million, prompting Nathan to analyze his post-money and pre-money math.12:44–16:57 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Commercial Sponsor and Database Announcements This segment contains sponsor reads followed by the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Hal shares his experiences working with Satya Nadella and Bill Gates in an agreeable, conversational tone.16:58–17:51 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Episode Teaser A concluding solo outro segment by the host summarizing Kimiko's metrics and previewing the next episode. Host and guest dynamic scores are zeroed for monologue.1:34–3:50 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Kimiko's Product Vision and Leaving Microsoft Nathan asks straightforward questions about Kimiko's product vision, data integrations, and Hal's transition after two decades at Microsoft. Hal politely outlines how business applications fail users by functioning as burden-heavy databases.3:50–6:03 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Team Structure, Pricing, and Company Launch Nathan quickly runs the numbers on seat counts and pricing to calculate monthly recurring revenue around sixty thousand dollars. Hal good-humoredly corrects Nathan's Boca vacation assumption to Venice while detailing his engineering team structure.6:03–10:31 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Market Dynamics and CRM Partnership Strategy Nathan probes whether Kimiko is competing with CRMs like Pipedrive or ToutApp, and later questions Hal on round structure. Hal clarifies that Kimiko is strictly an intelligence layer partner and corrects Nathan's confusion regarding which funding round was priced.10:31–12:42 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Financial Performance, Margins, and Acquisition Valuation Nathan drills into gross margins, growth metrics, and acquisition targets, floating a lowball two million dollar buyout. Hal dismisses the low offer, stating he would need at least twenty-five million, prompting Nathan to analyze his post-money and pre-money math.12:44–16:57 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Commercial Sponsor and Database Announcements This segment contains sponsor reads followed by the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Hal shares his experiences working with Satya Nadella and Bill Gates in an agreeable, conversational tone.16:58–17:51 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Recap and Next Episode Teaser A concluding solo outro segment by the host summarizing Kimiko's metrics and previewing the next episode. Host and guest dynamic scores are zeroed for monologue.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 66.6% · guest 33.4%0:00 · Nathan 66.6% · guest 33.4%3:00 · Nathan 37.3% · guest 62.7%3:00 · Nathan 37.3% · guest 62.7%6:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%6:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%9:00 · Nathan 26% · guest 74%9:00 · Nathan 26% · guest 74%12:00 · Nathan 83.7% · guest 16.3%12:00 · Nathan 83.7% · guest 16.3%15:00 · Nathan 51.7% · guest 48.3%15:00 · Nathan 51.7% · guest 48.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:09 Immediate rejection of two million dollar buyout price

Hal quickly scoffs at Nathan's theoretical two million dollar acquisition figure, asserting he would not sell for anything less than twenty-five million.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 7:01 Drilling guest on direct CRM market competition

Nathan refuses to assume Kimiko is merely complementary, citing failed and funded competitors like ToutApp and Pipedrive to demand how customers evaluate Kimiko.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:20 Educating host on sales intelligence vs CRM infrastructure

Hal clearly explains that customers do not compare Kimiko to CRM tools during purchase decisions because they have already selected their base CRM and need an intelligence layer.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:20 Dissecting valuation math and pre-money numbers

Nathan demonstrates his financial acumen by breaking down Hal's eleven million dollar post-money valuation and one point five million dollar raise into the implied pre-money valuation.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Kimiko's Product Vision and Leaving Microsoft 4201 Nathan asks straightforward questions about Kimiko's product vision, data integrations, and Hal's transition after two decades at Microsoft. Hal politely outlines how business applications fail users by functioning as burden-heavy databases.
Team Structure, Pricing, and Company Launch 5212 Nathan quickly runs the numbers on seat counts and pricing to calculate monthly recurring revenue around sixty thousand dollars. Hal good-humoredly corrects Nathan's Boca vacation assumption to Venice while detailing his engineering team structure.
Market Dynamics and CRM Partnership Strategy 6324 Nathan probes whether Kimiko is competing with CRMs like Pipedrive or ToutApp, and later questions Hal on round structure. Hal clarifies that Kimiko is strictly an intelligence layer partner and corrects Nathan's confusion regarding which funding round was priced.
Financial Performance, Margins, and Acquisition Valuation 6224 Nathan drills into gross margins, growth metrics, and acquisition targets, floating a lowball two million dollar buyout. Hal dismisses the low offer, stating he would need at least twenty-five million, prompting Nathan to analyze his post-money and pre-money math.
Commercial Sponsor and Database Announcements 2101 This segment contains sponsor reads followed by the Famous Five rapid-fire questions. Hal shares his experiences working with Satya Nadella and Bill Gates in an agreeable, conversational tone.
Episode Recap and Next Episode Teaser 0000 A concluding solo outro segment by the host summarizing Kimiko's metrics and previewing the next episode. Host and guest dynamic scores are zeroed for monologue.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kimiko charges an average of $30 to $35 per user monthly
“Average customer pays anywhere from 30 to 35 dollars per month per user.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 3:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kimiko reached 2,000 paid user seats by August 2017
“2000 at the moment and growing every day.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 4:12
Disclosure
Kimiko complements rather than replaces Salesforce for its enterprise customers
“Right now we see our app as complimentary to CRM. We don't see ourselves replacing something like Salesforce, for example. We actually partner with Salesforce. And most of our companies actually, most of our customers actually have Salesforce and we're complim…”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 6:29
Opinion
Salesforce successfully defended its pricing power despite platform commoditization
“That's typical when you commoditize the platform layer of something as the price does drop, but Salesforce done a good job of maintaining their value and their price points.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 6:52
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kimiko has lost a total of only four customers since its founding
“We've lost in total over the history of our company, four customers, and it was, one was acquired, and therefore, it wasn't a candidate anymore. One had a huge management changeover, and the other two were early days stuff where we were testing with them and d…”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 8:03
Disclosure
Kimiko has raised $2M total, led by Founders' Co-op
“We did raise a little capital, so we did an initial friends and family round, and then we did a seed round last year in August led by an organization called Founders Co-op here out of Seattle, and so we have raised a little capital. How much total? What was it…”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 9:49
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kimiko expects to hit a $1M ARR run rate by year-end 2017
“So I think we'll hit that mark. It's just a matter of driving hard to get there.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 10:56
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kimiko currently operates at roughly a 75 percent gross margin
“We're probably more like 75% gross margin right now.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 11:46
Disclosure
Kimiko raised its last round at an $11M post-money valuation
“Well, I'm, you know, the last financing round, the post-money number was around eleven million dollars, so we'd want to at least double that for our investors.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 12:25
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Satya Nadella was clearly a top Microsoft CEO contender a decade prior
“I think 10 years ago, I had a pretty good idea that he was gonna, gonna be one of the contenders, at least. There were many great candidates within the company, and certainly he was one of the best.”
Hal Howard Aug 9, 2017 ▶ 15:24
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