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Sep 30, 2017 · 21m · top-founders

798: Mobile Ad Tech Passes $100m in Revenues

Harry Kargman · 13m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Harry Kargman, founder and CEO of Kargo, to uncover how he bootstrapped a mobile brand advertising marketplace to over $100 million in revenue and 96% publisher penetration through 17 years of strategic pivots and proprietary ad technology.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 30.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 3.6 Guest teaching 2.8 Guest disagreement 1.6 Nathan pushing back 2.4
05100:0010:0020:001:07–5:46 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Promotional Announcement for GetLatka SaaS Database Nathan introduces the guest and seeks clarity on whether Cargo operates as an agency or a tech provider. Harry clarifies and educates Nathan on why mobile ad inventory is a complex technology and plumbing problem requiring dedicated SDKs and JavaScript snippets.5:46–11:02 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Marketplace Penetration Across Publishers and Brands Nathan aggressively presses Harry multiple times to reveal Cargo's average take rate and revenue share range. Harry pushes back against disclosing exact margins to protect publisher relationships, forcing Nathan to eventually concede and move forward.11:02–13:50 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Financial Milestones and Next-Generation Programmatic Strategy Harry outlines Cargo's revenue milestones passing $100M and their pivot to programmatic guaranteed and private marketplaces. Nathan asks probing questions about revenue targets and the split between SaaS licensing and media spend.13:51–16:52 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 Global Organizational Footprint and NBC Upfront Partnership Harry describes his global team layout and narrates the 8-year struggle of bootstrapping Cargo through carrier and publisher pivots. Nathan listens closely as Harry explains how the launch of the iPhone forced them into selling mobile ad inventory directly.16:52–20:11 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Commercial Break: HostGator Website Hosting Promotion Following a HostGator sponsor read, Nathan runs through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions with Harry in a relaxed, friendly manner.1:07–5:46 · Guest teaching 5/10 Promotional Announcement for GetLatka SaaS Database Nathan introduces the guest and seeks clarity on whether Cargo operates as an agency or a tech provider. Harry clarifies and educates Nathan on why mobile ad inventory is a complex technology and plumbing problem requiring dedicated SDKs and JavaScript snippets.5:46–11:02 · Guest teaching 2/10 Marketplace Penetration Across Publishers and Brands Nathan aggressively presses Harry multiple times to reveal Cargo's average take rate and revenue share range. Harry pushes back against disclosing exact margins to protect publisher relationships, forcing Nathan to eventually concede and move forward.11:02–13:50 · Guest teaching 3/10 Financial Milestones and Next-Generation Programmatic Strategy Harry outlines Cargo's revenue milestones passing $100M and their pivot to programmatic guaranteed and private marketplaces. Nathan asks probing questions about revenue targets and the split between SaaS licensing and media spend.13:51–16:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Global Organizational Footprint and NBC Upfront Partnership Harry describes his global team layout and narrates the 8-year struggle of bootstrapping Cargo through carrier and publisher pivots. Nathan listens closely as Harry explains how the launch of the iPhone forced them into selling mobile ad inventory directly.16:52–20:11 · Guest teaching 1/10 Commercial Break: HostGator Website Hosting Promotion Following a HostGator sponsor read, Nathan runs through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions with Harry in a relaxed, friendly manner.1:07–5:46 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Promotional Announcement for GetLatka SaaS Database Nathan introduces the guest and seeks clarity on whether Cargo operates as an agency or a tech provider. Harry clarifies and educates Nathan on why mobile ad inventory is a complex technology and plumbing problem requiring dedicated SDKs and JavaScript snippets.5:46–11:02 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Marketplace Penetration Across Publishers and Brands Nathan aggressively presses Harry multiple times to reveal Cargo's average take rate and revenue share range. Harry pushes back against disclosing exact margins to protect publisher relationships, forcing Nathan to eventually concede and move forward.11:02–13:50 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Financial Milestones and Next-Generation Programmatic Strategy Harry outlines Cargo's revenue milestones passing $100M and their pivot to programmatic guaranteed and private marketplaces. Nathan asks probing questions about revenue targets and the split between SaaS licensing and media spend.13:51–16:52 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Global Organizational Footprint and NBC Upfront Partnership Harry describes his global team layout and narrates the 8-year struggle of bootstrapping Cargo through carrier and publisher pivots. Nathan listens closely as Harry explains how the launch of the iPhone forced them into selling mobile ad inventory directly.16:52–20:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Commercial Break: HostGator Website Hosting Promotion Following a HostGator sponsor read, Nathan runs through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions with Harry in a relaxed, friendly manner.1:07–5:46 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Promotional Announcement for GetLatka SaaS Database Nathan introduces the guest and seeks clarity on whether Cargo operates as an agency or a tech provider. Harry clarifies and educates Nathan on why mobile ad inventory is a complex technology and plumbing problem requiring dedicated SDKs and JavaScript snippets.5:46–11:02 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Marketplace Penetration Across Publishers and Brands Nathan aggressively presses Harry multiple times to reveal Cargo's average take rate and revenue share range. Harry pushes back against disclosing exact margins to protect publisher relationships, forcing Nathan to eventually concede and move forward.11:02–13:50 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Financial Milestones and Next-Generation Programmatic Strategy Harry outlines Cargo's revenue milestones passing $100M and their pivot to programmatic guaranteed and private marketplaces. Nathan asks probing questions about revenue targets and the split between SaaS licensing and media spend.13:51–16:52 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Global Organizational Footprint and NBC Upfront Partnership Harry describes his global team layout and narrates the 8-year struggle of bootstrapping Cargo through carrier and publisher pivots. Nathan listens closely as Harry explains how the launch of the iPhone forced them into selling mobile ad inventory directly.16:52–20:11 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Commercial Break: HostGator Website Hosting Promotion Following a HostGator sponsor read, Nathan runs through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions with Harry in a relaxed, friendly manner.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 85% · guest 15%0:00 · Nathan 85% · guest 15%3:00 · Nathan 8.5% · guest 91.5%3:00 · Nathan 8.5% · guest 91.5%6:00 · Nathan 12.5% · guest 87.5%6:00 · Nathan 12.5% · guest 87.5%9:00 · Nathan 18.5% · guest 81.5%9:00 · Nathan 18.5% · guest 81.5%12:00 · Nathan 12% · guest 88%12:00 · Nathan 12% · guest 88%15:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%15:00 · Nathan 31% · guest 69%18:00 · Nathan 39.1% · guest 60.9%18:00 · Nathan 39.1% · guest 60.9%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%21:00 · Nathan 100% · guest 0%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:11 Refusal to disclose publisher cut percentages

Harry firmly resists Nathan's repeated demands for revenue share ranges, arguing that releasing those figures would compromise publisher partner parity.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:59 Demanding a take-rate percentage range

Nathan refuses to accept Harry's general value-delivery pitch and directly presses him to state whether Cargo's cut is 20% or 30% of spend.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:17 Reframing Cargo as technology plumbing, not an agency

Harry corrects Nathan's assumption that Cargo is an ad agency by explaining how responsive mobile ad delivery requires custom technology injection.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 4:25 Pinning down technical integration mechanisms

Nathan demonstrates technical domain awareness by correctly identifying the need for publisher buy-in via JavaScript snippets and mobile SDKs.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Promotional Announcement for GetLatka SaaS Database 4512 Nathan introduces the guest and seeks clarity on whether Cargo operates as an agency or a tech provider. Harry clarifies and educates Nathan on why mobile ad inventory is a complex technology and plumbing problem requiring dedicated SDKs and JavaScript snippets.
Marketplace Penetration Across Publishers and Brands 5246 Nathan aggressively presses Harry multiple times to reveal Cargo's average take rate and revenue share range. Harry pushes back against disclosing exact margins to protect publisher relationships, forcing Nathan to eventually concede and move forward.
Financial Milestones and Next-Generation Programmatic Strategy 4312 Harry outlines Cargo's revenue milestones passing $100M and their pivot to programmatic guaranteed and private marketplaces. Nathan asks probing questions about revenue targets and the split between SaaS licensing and media spend.
Global Organizational Footprint and NBC Upfront Partnership 3311 Harry describes his global team layout and narrates the 8-year struggle of bootstrapping Cargo through carrier and publisher pivots. Nathan listens closely as Harry explains how the launch of the iPhone forced them into selling mobile ad inventory directly.
Commercial Break: HostGator Website Hosting Promotion 2111 Following a HostGator sponsor read, Nathan runs through the standard 'Famous Five' rapid-fire questions with Harry in a relaxed, friendly manner.

Statements from this episode (15)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo is the largest mobile brand advertising company
“So Cargo is the largest brand advertising company for mobile.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 2:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo sees every North American user monthly
“We see every user in North America every month, and most users every day.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 5:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo partners with 96% to 97% of major media companies
“The lucky thing is because we've been operating for so long, we have virtually every single major media company. Our publishers save a small handful. So we have about 96, 97%.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 5:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo spans 300 properties across 60 to 70 publishers
“It ends up being, I think we have about 300 properties maybe across 60 to 70 major media companies and publishers.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 6:04
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo works with almost every Fortune 1000 advertiser
“We have almost virtually every single one of the Fortune 1000 largest advertisers.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 6:21
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo rejects nine out of every ten publishers
“And that's the big thing is like, we turned down nine out of every 10 publishers. We're so focused on quality.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 8:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo delivers publisher CPMs 3x to 10x higher than open exchanges
“We try to deliver CPMs to our publishers based upon the quality of the ad creative that we delivered and the fact that we've, they've entrusted us to give us access to these super high end properties. At least three to five X and sometimes 10 X higher from a C…”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 9:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo passed $100M in annual revenue in 2015
“So we announced in 2015 that we passed a hundred million in annual revenue.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 11:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman: Kargo grew 100% year-over-year for five consecutive years
“And in the prior five years, we were growing at about a hundred percent year over year.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 11:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kargman says Kargo's revenue is 15-20% SaaS and 85% media
“So as I said, it's about 15 to 20% SaaS. Sorry. 85% media”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 13:11
Disclosure
Kargo operates exclusively via private marketplaces, refusing open programmatic
“Cargo does not do open. We do private marketplace deals with the biggest and best advertisers, because we want to maintain that quality level, and we want the look and experience to be unique to what we can create and build on the mobile platform.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 13:28
Disclosure
Kargman: Kargo employs just under 300 people globally
“So we're just under 300 people. I think we have about 275 plus people across the world.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 13:57
Assertion Partly supported
Kargman: Kargo is NBC's only independent mobile upfront partner
“We're the only partner that I think that, that they don't have sort of control over. That's in there up front. We're actually built in as the mobile portal in there up front.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 14:30
Disclosure
Kargman: Kargo is entirely bootstrapped without outside capital
“So so this is this is a bootstrap company. You know, we haven't.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 15:07
Disclosure
Kargman says Kargo pivoted at least four times before succeeding
“We've had to pivot at least four times, probably five to be successful.”
Harry Kargman Sep 30, 2017 ▶ 20:00
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