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Feb 18, 2018 · 19m · top-founders

939 How he Bootstrapped To $15m in ARR Before $20m Round from IVP

Chris Hall · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, Bynder founder and CEO Chris Hall breaks down how his digital asset management SaaS bootstrapped to $15 million in ARR before raising a $22 million growth round from Insight Venture Partners to scale past $20 million ARR.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.2 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 3.5
05100:0010:000:49–2:49 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Chris Hall and Bynder's Core Solution Nathan quickly catches and clarifies Chris's slip-up regarding average selling price versus monthly enterprise pricing, immediately doing the mental math to map out the low and high pricing boundaries.2:49–6:20 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Freemium Transition, User Stickiness, and Digital Asset Management Nathan pushes Chris on identifying a single core stickiness metric like Facebook's early growth benchmarks. Chris educates Nathan on why historical flagship customer data cannot simply be applied to their new automated freemium product.6:21–11:08 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Base Scale and Doubling Revenue to $20M ARR Nathan actively tests Chris's metrics with quick revenue math and challenges Chris on taking venture capital after bootstrapping to profitability, probing into dilution and valuation multiples.11:10–13:43 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Host Promotion: The Top Inbox Acquisition and Income Report Following a sponsor and acquisition pitch, Nathan questions Chris on turning down hypothetical strategic acquisitions to pursue a high-risk billion-dollar outcome.13:43–16:17 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Enterprise Retention Metrics and Managing Account Churn Nathan digs into net versus gross churn metrics and instantly converts Chris's payback period and ACV into an estimated fully loaded customer acquisition cost.16:17–18:21 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Chris Hall Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions in a cordial, low-friction exchange before summarizing Bynder's performance metrics.0:49–2:49 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Chris Hall and Bynder's Core Solution Nathan quickly catches and clarifies Chris's slip-up regarding average selling price versus monthly enterprise pricing, immediately doing the mental math to map out the low and high pricing boundaries.2:49–6:20 · Guest teaching 5/10 Freemium Transition, User Stickiness, and Digital Asset Management Nathan pushes Chris on identifying a single core stickiness metric like Facebook's early growth benchmarks. Chris educates Nathan on why historical flagship customer data cannot simply be applied to their new automated freemium product.6:21–11:08 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Base Scale and Doubling Revenue to $20M ARR Nathan actively tests Chris's metrics with quick revenue math and challenges Chris on taking venture capital after bootstrapping to profitability, probing into dilution and valuation multiples.11:10–13:43 · Guest teaching 2/10 Host Promotion: The Top Inbox Acquisition and Income Report Following a sponsor and acquisition pitch, Nathan questions Chris on turning down hypothetical strategic acquisitions to pursue a high-risk billion-dollar outcome.13:43–16:17 · Guest teaching 2/10 Enterprise Retention Metrics and Managing Account Churn Nathan digs into net versus gross churn metrics and instantly converts Chris's payback period and ACV into an estimated fully loaded customer acquisition cost.16:17–18:21 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Chris Hall Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions in a cordial, low-friction exchange before summarizing Bynder's performance metrics.0:49–2:49 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Chris Hall and Bynder's Core Solution Nathan quickly catches and clarifies Chris's slip-up regarding average selling price versus monthly enterprise pricing, immediately doing the mental math to map out the low and high pricing boundaries.2:49–6:20 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Freemium Transition, User Stickiness, and Digital Asset Management Nathan pushes Chris on identifying a single core stickiness metric like Facebook's early growth benchmarks. Chris educates Nathan on why historical flagship customer data cannot simply be applied to their new automated freemium product.6:21–11:08 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Base Scale and Doubling Revenue to $20M ARR Nathan actively tests Chris's metrics with quick revenue math and challenges Chris on taking venture capital after bootstrapping to profitability, probing into dilution and valuation multiples.11:10–13:43 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Host Promotion: The Top Inbox Acquisition and Income Report Following a sponsor and acquisition pitch, Nathan questions Chris on turning down hypothetical strategic acquisitions to pursue a high-risk billion-dollar outcome.13:43–16:17 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Enterprise Retention Metrics and Managing Account Churn Nathan digs into net versus gross churn metrics and instantly converts Chris's payback period and ACV into an estimated fully loaded customer acquisition cost.16:17–18:21 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Chris Hall Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions in a cordial, low-friction exchange before summarizing Bynder's performance metrics.0:49–2:49 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Chris Hall and Bynder's Core Solution Nathan quickly catches and clarifies Chris's slip-up regarding average selling price versus monthly enterprise pricing, immediately doing the mental math to map out the low and high pricing boundaries.2:49–6:20 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Freemium Transition, User Stickiness, and Digital Asset Management Nathan pushes Chris on identifying a single core stickiness metric like Facebook's early growth benchmarks. Chris educates Nathan on why historical flagship customer data cannot simply be applied to their new automated freemium product.6:21–11:08 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Customer Base Scale and Doubling Revenue to $20M ARR Nathan actively tests Chris's metrics with quick revenue math and challenges Chris on taking venture capital after bootstrapping to profitability, probing into dilution and valuation multiples.11:10–13:43 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Host Promotion: The Top Inbox Acquisition and Income Report Following a sponsor and acquisition pitch, Nathan questions Chris on turning down hypothetical strategic acquisitions to pursue a high-risk billion-dollar outcome.13:43–16:17 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Enterprise Retention Metrics and Managing Account Churn Nathan digs into net versus gross churn metrics and instantly converts Chris's payback period and ACV into an estimated fully loaded customer acquisition cost.16:17–18:21 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Chris Hall Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions in a cordial, low-friction exchange before summarizing Bynder's performance metrics.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 63.3% · guest 36.7%0:00 · Nathan 63.3% · guest 36.7%3:00 · Nathan 25.2% · guest 74.8%3:00 · Nathan 25.2% · guest 74.8%6:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%6:00 · Nathan 30.1% · guest 69.9%9:00 · Nathan 47.8% · guest 52.2%9:00 · Nathan 47.8% · guest 52.2%12:00 · Nathan 34.8% · guest 65.2%12:00 · Nathan 34.8% · guest 65.2%15:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%15:00 · Nathan 32.8% · guest 67.2%18:00 · Nathan 70% · guest 30%18:00 · Nathan 70% · guest 30%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:37 Chris rejects historical cohort comparison

Chris firmly pushes back against Nathan's suggestion to copy historical flagship data, explaining that the transition to automated freemium digital asset management represents an entirely different category motion.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 8:27 Nathan calls out raising venture capital

Nathan directly challenges Chris for taking institutional funding from Insight after bootstrapping to high ARR, playfully teasing him about moving to the dark side.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:37 Chris educates on DAM category evolution

Chris explains how digital asset management is following the enterprise-to-commodity path of CRM and CMS, detailing why upfront implementation periods must be eliminated.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 16:03 Nathan calculates CAC live from payback period

Nathan demonstrates strong domain mastery by immediately calculating that a 16-month payback on a $24k minimum ACV equals roughly $30k in customer acquisition cost.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Chris Hall and Bynder's Core Solution 5113 Nathan quickly catches and clarifies Chris's slip-up regarding average selling price versus monthly enterprise pricing, immediately doing the mental math to map out the low and high pricing boundaries.
Freemium Transition, User Stickiness, and Digital Asset Management 6525 Nathan pushes Chris on identifying a single core stickiness metric like Facebook's early growth benchmarks. Chris educates Nathan on why historical flagship customer data cannot simply be applied to their new automated freemium product.
Customer Base Scale and Doubling Revenue to $20M ARR 7225 Nathan actively tests Chris's metrics with quick revenue math and challenges Chris on taking venture capital after bootstrapping to profitability, probing into dilution and valuation multiples.
Host Promotion: The Top Inbox Acquisition and Income Report 4223 Following a sponsor and acquisition pitch, Nathan questions Chris on turning down hypothetical strategic acquisitions to pursue a high-risk billion-dollar outcome.
Enterprise Retention Metrics and Managing Account Churn 7214 Nathan digs into net versus gross churn metrics and instantly converts Chris's payback period and ACV into an estimated fully loaded customer acquisition cost.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Chris Hall 2001 Nathan runs through the standard rapid-fire questions in a cordial, low-friction exchange before summarizing Bynder's performance metrics.

Statements from this episode (17)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Chris Hall: Bynder enterprise clients average about $5,500 per month
“Well, my enterprise customers is, I think it's about 5500 a month now.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 2:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Chris Hall: Bynder's typical annual deal size is $24k to $25k
“And then our overall typical deal size is it's 24, 25”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 2:29
Disclosure
Bynder Shifts from Seat-Based to Usage-Based Pricing Model
“We used to be seat based with a model module pricing. So basically for the enterprise will, the more modules they buy, the more they're paying on a fixed rate. And then on top of that, there's a seat based price. But it's difficult to do that. And so we're sor…”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 3:09
Disclosure
Hall: Bynder has over 450 paying clients
“We have 450 plus clients right now.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 6:26
Disclosure
Hall: Bynder has over 250,000 users in its system
“Over 250,000 users in the, in, in the system.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 6:32
Disclosure
Hall: Bynder passed $20M ARR this year
“So we passed the twenty million as well this year. So we're a little over that.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 7:14
Assertion Partly supported
Hall: Bynder Incorporated in 2013 as Spinoff from 2008 Agency
“So we started in 2013 and it really was sort of a spin off of our of a development agency. I started with a couple of friends of mine and the, you know, that was back in 2008, just the three of us at the kitchen table. And this was sort of a tool we started de…”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 7:37
Disclosure
Hall: Bynder Bootstrapped Until First Funding Round with Insight
“So we were bootstrapped until then. And last year August, we did our first round of funding with Insight Venture Capital. I'm sorry, Insight Venture.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 8:17
Disclosure
Hall: Bynder Raised €20M ($22M USD) in Series A Round
“It was twenty two million. Well, twenty million euros, so about twenty two million dollars.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 8:49
Disclosure
Hall: All $22M Raised Was Primary Growth Capital
“No, it's all growth.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 10:09
Disclosure
Chris Hall retained majority control of Bynder after its Series A
“We're still, they're a minority shareholder, and I still control the majority of the shares.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 10:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hall: Bynder Was Cash Flow Neutral When Raising Insight Round
“We were sort of in a good position that we were cashflow neutral when we did the round.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 13:19
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hall: Bynder achieved 111% net dollar retention last year
“Last year was, like, our net dollar retention was, like, a 111%. Yeah, it was a 111.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 13:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hall: Bynder's gross revenue retention was 94%
“The gross retention was 94.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 14:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hall: Bynder's team size is around 270 people
“Run about two 70.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 15:06
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Hall: Bynder's CAC payback period is around 16 to 18 months
“We are higher than that. But that's trending down again. It's, there's differences. We tend to look at also just a sort of a rolling average in that as well, because there's going to be peak months that is slightly out of whack. But yeah, it's around around 16…”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 15:26
Insight
Hall: 16-month CAC payback is acceptable at 100% growth
“If you're growing at this rate, if you're still sort of around a hundred percent growth rate I think a 16 month payback period isn't too bad.”
Chris Hall Feb 18, 2018 ▶ 15:53
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