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Jul 7, 2018 · 16m · top-founders

1078 How agile content marketing solution Turtl hit $125k/mo

Nick Mason · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs podcast, Nathan Latka interviews Turtl co-founder and CEO Nick Mason, exploring how the interactive content marketing platform scaled to over $125,000 in monthly recurring revenue with lean capital, near-zero churn, and product-led acquisition.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.8 Guest teaching 1.6 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 1.8
05100:0010:000:49–5:04 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Introducing Nick Mason and Turtl's Business Model Nathan quickly categorizes Turtl's ACV and SaaS pricing model and inquires about cap table dynamics and priced equity. Nick provides straightforward answers about the company's Oxford research origins and angel funding history.5:06–7:33 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Team Structure, Enterprise Clients, and Value Metrics When Nathan assumes Turtl is trying to move upstream to larger accounts, Nick clarifies that their actual strategy is landing with smaller entry points and expanding. Nick also educates Nathan on why insight generation per page is the crucial metric for clients like Bloomberg rather than standard lead generation.7:33–9:35 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Customer Success Focus Nathan inquires about annual growth and churn metrics. Nick readily admits he lacks an exact churn percentage but discusses setting up customer success to manage upsells.9:38–14:10 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Managing Churn and Driving Seat Activation Nathan presses Nick on pricing sensitivity and whether zero churn indicates underpricing, then drills into paid spend and CAC numbers Nick does not have handy. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by mathematically estimating a $3,000 CAC and a one-to-two month payback period based on top-line estimates.14:13–15:56 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire Famous Five personal questions followed by Nathan's swift financial recap of the interview.0:49–5:04 · Guest teaching 1/10 Introducing Nick Mason and Turtl's Business Model Nathan quickly categorizes Turtl's ACV and SaaS pricing model and inquires about cap table dynamics and priced equity. Nick provides straightforward answers about the company's Oxford research origins and angel funding history.5:06–7:33 · Guest teaching 4/10 Team Structure, Enterprise Clients, and Value Metrics When Nathan assumes Turtl is trying to move upstream to larger accounts, Nick clarifies that their actual strategy is landing with smaller entry points and expanding. Nick also educates Nathan on why insight generation per page is the crucial metric for clients like Bloomberg rather than standard lead generation.7:33–9:35 · Guest teaching 1/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Customer Success Focus Nathan inquires about annual growth and churn metrics. Nick readily admits he lacks an exact churn percentage but discusses setting up customer success to manage upsells.9:38–14:10 · Guest teaching 2/10 Managing Churn and Driving Seat Activation Nathan presses Nick on pricing sensitivity and whether zero churn indicates underpricing, then drills into paid spend and CAC numbers Nick does not have handy. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by mathematically estimating a $3,000 CAC and a one-to-two month payback period based on top-line estimates.14:13–15:56 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire Famous Five personal questions followed by Nathan's swift financial recap of the interview.0:49–5:04 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Nick Mason and Turtl's Business Model Nathan quickly categorizes Turtl's ACV and SaaS pricing model and inquires about cap table dynamics and priced equity. Nick provides straightforward answers about the company's Oxford research origins and angel funding history.5:06–7:33 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Team Structure, Enterprise Clients, and Value Metrics When Nathan assumes Turtl is trying to move upstream to larger accounts, Nick clarifies that their actual strategy is landing with smaller entry points and expanding. Nick also educates Nathan on why insight generation per page is the crucial metric for clients like Bloomberg rather than standard lead generation.7:33–9:35 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Customer Success Focus Nathan inquires about annual growth and churn metrics. Nick readily admits he lacks an exact churn percentage but discusses setting up customer success to manage upsells.9:38–14:10 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Managing Churn and Driving Seat Activation Nathan presses Nick on pricing sensitivity and whether zero churn indicates underpricing, then drills into paid spend and CAC numbers Nick does not have handy. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by mathematically estimating a $3,000 CAC and a one-to-two month payback period based on top-line estimates.14:13–15:56 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire Famous Five personal questions followed by Nathan's swift financial recap of the interview.0:49–5:04 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing Nick Mason and Turtl's Business Model Nathan quickly categorizes Turtl's ACV and SaaS pricing model and inquires about cap table dynamics and priced equity. Nick provides straightforward answers about the company's Oxford research origins and angel funding history.5:06–7:33 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Team Structure, Enterprise Clients, and Value Metrics When Nathan assumes Turtl is trying to move upstream to larger accounts, Nick clarifies that their actual strategy is landing with smaller entry points and expanding. Nick also educates Nathan on why insight generation per page is the crucial metric for clients like Bloomberg rather than standard lead generation.7:33–9:35 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Revenue Growth Trajectory and Customer Success Focus Nathan inquires about annual growth and churn metrics. Nick readily admits he lacks an exact churn percentage but discusses setting up customer success to manage upsells.9:38–14:10 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Managing Churn and Driving Seat Activation Nathan presses Nick on pricing sensitivity and whether zero churn indicates underpricing, then drills into paid spend and CAC numbers Nick does not have handy. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by mathematically estimating a $3,000 CAC and a one-to-two month payback period based on top-line estimates.14:13–15:56 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire Famous Five personal questions followed by Nathan's swift financial recap of the interview.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 51.6% · guest 48.4%0:00 · Nathan 51.6% · guest 48.4%3:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%3:00 · Nathan 26.9% · guest 73.1%6:00 · Nathan 24.4% · guest 75.6%6:00 · Nathan 24.4% · guest 75.6%9:00 · Nathan 49.3% · guest 50.7%9:00 · Nathan 49.3% · guest 50.7%12:00 · Nathan 41% · guest 59%12:00 · Nathan 41% · guest 59%15:00 · Nathan 73% · guest 27%15:00 · Nathan 73% · guest 27%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:53 Rejecting moving upstream assumption

Nick corrects Nathan's assumption about moving upstream by explaining that starting too high hampers time-to-value, making a bottom-up beachhead approach much more effective.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:03 Challenging pricing power and seat count

Nathan challenges Nick's zero-churn claim by arguing that Turtl may be underpriced and presses Nick directly to define his active seat volume.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:41 Explaining granular content analytics

Nick explains to Nathan how enterprise clients evaluate usage through page-by-page engagement data for sales reps rather than conventional marketing lead totals.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:50 Backing into unit economics on the fly

Nathan synthesizes Nick's loose marketing budget figures to model out customer acquisition cost and instant payback velocity on air.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Nick Mason and Turtl's Business Model 4111 Nathan quickly categorizes Turtl's ACV and SaaS pricing model and inquires about cap table dynamics and priced equity. Nick provides straightforward answers about the company's Oxford research origins and angel funding history.
Team Structure, Enterprise Clients, and Value Metrics 5422 When Nathan assumes Turtl is trying to move upstream to larger accounts, Nick clarifies that their actual strategy is landing with smaller entry points and expanding. Nick also educates Nathan on why insight generation per page is the crucial metric for clients like Bloomberg rather than standard lead generation.
Revenue Growth Trajectory and Customer Success Focus 4112 Nathan inquires about annual growth and churn metrics. Nick readily admits he lacks an exact churn percentage but discusses setting up customer success to manage upsells.
Managing Churn and Driving Seat Activation 7214 Nathan presses Nick on pricing sensitivity and whether zero churn indicates underpricing, then drills into paid spend and CAC numbers Nick does not have handy. Nathan demonstrates strong domain expertise by mathematically estimating a $3,000 CAC and a one-to-two month payback period based on top-line estimates.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4000 The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire Famous Five personal questions followed by Nathan's swift financial recap of the interview.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nick Mason: Turtl's ACV is around £2,500 per month
“So average contract value per month is around two and a half thousand UK.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 1:57
Disclosure
Nick Mason: Turtl avoids VC funding to retain founder control
“So we want to kind of steer clear of doing it the VC way and, you know, try and maintain control and keep it that way.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 3:46
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Nick Mason: Turtl serves around 50 customers including Bloomberg, Cisco, and Oracle
“So we have in the region of 50 customers, ranging from Bloomberg, Cisco, Oracle economists, people like that, down to smaller businesses.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 5:30
Insight
Nick Mason: Enterprise land-and-expand sales require a lower initial entry price
“We, what we found is that if we go in too high to start with you know, we struggle to demonstrate value quick enough for people to really get what we're doing. So our strategy at the moment is to go in a tiny bit lower and to grow value over time. So, you know…”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 5:58
What-if
Nick Mason: Turtl should have invested in customer success sooner
“And I think that if I had one thing that I wish we'd invested in a bit sooner, it would have been that because, you know, it takes time to get up to speed and, you know, it's also a tremendous opportunity for upsell and growing accounts if you're doing that we…”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 8:12
Insight
Nick Mason: End users, not check signers, drive enterprise software expansion
“Cause at the end of the day, you know, those are the people who buy our software. They don't sign the checks, but those are the people who you know, will be demanding more licenses. And saying, you know, you absolutely must not take this thing away from us. So…”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 8:28
Disclosure
Mason: Turtl's conservative target is expansion revenue balancing churn
“Our conservative goal is that the two balance each other out. But we'd like to do a lot better than that because we've got some really big accounts that we can grow. So that's our pessimistic our pessimistic view for this year.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 9:48
Disclosure
Mason: Turtl spends 6,000 to 7,000 monthly on direct marketing
“Six, 7000.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 11:53
Disclosure
Nick Mason: Customer-published content is one of Turtl's biggest lead drivers
“The thing as well that really drives that drives leads for us is one of our biggest lead generators is customers content.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 13:35
Insight
Nick Mason: Having kids in your mid-20s forces entrepreneurial focus
“Well, the advice that I give is to have kids younger. I would have had kids at 25 because I think it helps you focus and see what, you know, Make sure things are important.”
Nick Mason Jul 7, 2018 ▶ 15:08
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