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Aug 4, 2018 · 21m · top-founders

1106 Fotoware CEO: We've moved 20% of our revenue from on prem to cloud

Anne Gretland · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs Podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Fotoware CEO Anne Gretland on guiding the 24-year-old bootstrapped Digital Asset Management company through an enterprise cloud SaaS transformation. Gretland breaks down Fotoware's $5 million ARR financial profile, zero-churn cloud retention, and the operational strategy behind modernizing legacy on-premise software.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 35.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.1 Guest teaching 2.1 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 3.3
05100:0010:0020:001:31–3:40 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Anne Gretland and Her Career Background Nathan introduces Anne Gretland and establishes Fotoware's 20-year background and origin story. The tone is collaborative and conversational as Anne provides foundational context.3:40–7:53 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Migrating from On-Premise Legacy to Cloud SaaS Nathan drills into the mechanics of the cloud migration, probing into pricing tiers, storage upsells, and the 80/20 on-prem to cloud revenue split.7:53–13:04 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 User Demographics and Direct-to-Digital Scalability Nathan challenges the arithmetic when multiplying customer counts by average contract values, surfacing an initial discrepancy caused by currency conversions. Anne then educates Nathan on enterprise cloud migration cycles based on her Microsoft background.13:05–15:42 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Team Footprint, Bootstrapping History, and Financial Truth Nathan rigorously fact-checks stated revenue against employee headcount costs, prompting Anne to quickly correct her figures from monthly NOK to $5M USD annual run rate.15:42–18:40 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Marketing Scaling and Customer Acquisition Strategy Nathan presses on customer acquisition cost and churn metrics, with Anne transparently admitting she hasn't calculated CAC yet but presenting detailed logo churn data.18:40–20:57 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, nudging Anne to keep responses concise while discussing leadership books and sleep habits.20:57–21:44 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Photoware Strategic Recap Host monologue concluding the episode and summarizing Fotoware's core SaaS metrics, headcount, and transition strategy.1:31–3:40 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Anne Gretland and Her Career Background Nathan introduces Anne Gretland and establishes Fotoware's 20-year background and origin story. The tone is collaborative and conversational as Anne provides foundational context.3:40–7:53 · Guest teaching 3/10 Migrating from On-Premise Legacy to Cloud SaaS Nathan drills into the mechanics of the cloud migration, probing into pricing tiers, storage upsells, and the 80/20 on-prem to cloud revenue split.7:53–13:04 · Guest teaching 4/10 User Demographics and Direct-to-Digital Scalability Nathan challenges the arithmetic when multiplying customer counts by average contract values, surfacing an initial discrepancy caused by currency conversions. Anne then educates Nathan on enterprise cloud migration cycles based on her Microsoft background.13:05–15:42 · Guest teaching 2/10 Team Footprint, Bootstrapping History, and Financial Truth Nathan rigorously fact-checks stated revenue against employee headcount costs, prompting Anne to quickly correct her figures from monthly NOK to $5M USD annual run rate.15:42–18:40 · Guest teaching 3/10 Marketing Scaling and Customer Acquisition Strategy Nathan presses on customer acquisition cost and churn metrics, with Anne transparently admitting she hasn't calculated CAC yet but presenting detailed logo churn data.18:40–20:57 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, nudging Anne to keep responses concise while discussing leadership books and sleep habits.20:57–21:44 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Photoware Strategic Recap Host monologue concluding the episode and summarizing Fotoware's core SaaS metrics, headcount, and transition strategy.1:31–3:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Anne Gretland and Her Career Background Nathan introduces Anne Gretland and establishes Fotoware's 20-year background and origin story. The tone is collaborative and conversational as Anne provides foundational context.3:40–7:53 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Migrating from On-Premise Legacy to Cloud SaaS Nathan drills into the mechanics of the cloud migration, probing into pricing tiers, storage upsells, and the 80/20 on-prem to cloud revenue split.7:53–13:04 · Guest disagreement 2/10 User Demographics and Direct-to-Digital Scalability Nathan challenges the arithmetic when multiplying customer counts by average contract values, surfacing an initial discrepancy caused by currency conversions. Anne then educates Nathan on enterprise cloud migration cycles based on her Microsoft background.13:05–15:42 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Team Footprint, Bootstrapping History, and Financial Truth Nathan rigorously fact-checks stated revenue against employee headcount costs, prompting Anne to quickly correct her figures from monthly NOK to $5M USD annual run rate.15:42–18:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Marketing Scaling and Customer Acquisition Strategy Nathan presses on customer acquisition cost and churn metrics, with Anne transparently admitting she hasn't calculated CAC yet but presenting detailed logo churn data.18:40–20:57 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, nudging Anne to keep responses concise while discussing leadership books and sleep habits.20:57–21:44 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Photoware Strategic Recap Host monologue concluding the episode and summarizing Fotoware's core SaaS metrics, headcount, and transition strategy.1:31–3:40 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Introducing Anne Gretland and Her Career Background Nathan introduces Anne Gretland and establishes Fotoware's 20-year background and origin story. The tone is collaborative and conversational as Anne provides foundational context.3:40–7:53 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Migrating from On-Premise Legacy to Cloud SaaS Nathan drills into the mechanics of the cloud migration, probing into pricing tiers, storage upsells, and the 80/20 on-prem to cloud revenue split.7:53–13:04 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 User Demographics and Direct-to-Digital Scalability Nathan challenges the arithmetic when multiplying customer counts by average contract values, surfacing an initial discrepancy caused by currency conversions. Anne then educates Nathan on enterprise cloud migration cycles based on her Microsoft background.13:05–15:42 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Team Footprint, Bootstrapping History, and Financial Truth Nathan rigorously fact-checks stated revenue against employee headcount costs, prompting Anne to quickly correct her figures from monthly NOK to $5M USD annual run rate.15:42–18:40 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Marketing Scaling and Customer Acquisition Strategy Nathan presses on customer acquisition cost and churn metrics, with Anne transparently admitting she hasn't calculated CAC yet but presenting detailed logo churn data.18:40–20:57 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, nudging Anne to keep responses concise while discussing leadership books and sleep habits.20:57–21:44 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Conclusion and Photoware Strategic Recap Host monologue concluding the episode and summarizing Fotoware's core SaaS metrics, headcount, and transition strategy.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 69.7% · guest 30.3%0:00 · Nathan 69.7% · guest 30.3%3:00 · Nathan 29.9% · guest 70.1%3:00 · Nathan 29.9% · guest 70.1%6:00 · Nathan 29.9% · guest 70.1%6:00 · Nathan 29.9% · guest 70.1%9:00 · Nathan 18.9% · guest 81.1%9:00 · Nathan 18.9% · guest 81.1%12:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%12:00 · Nathan 31.6% · guest 68.4%15:00 · Nathan 31.3% · guest 68.7%15:00 · Nathan 31.3% · guest 68.7%18:00 · Nathan 19.5% · guest 80.5%18:00 · Nathan 19.5% · guest 80.5%21:00 · Nathan 99% · guest 1%21:00 · Nathan 99% · guest 1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:23 Currency and metric clarification

Anne pushes back against Nathan's revenue framing, pointing out that she is calculating figures in Norwegian kroner rather than US dollars.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 14:13 Payroll cost versus stated revenue challenge

Nathan directly challenges Anne's stated revenue numbers by demonstrating that a 28-person team would create far more monthly payroll expense than the revenue she reported.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 11:08 SaaS revenue transition lesson from Microsoft

Anne explains the expected temporary dip in revenue during a cloud transition by drawing on her firsthand experience leading Microsoft's migration to Office 365 and Azure.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:32 Mental arithmetic catch on ARPU

Nathan immediately calculates that multiplying 4,000 customers by a $3k average contract value would imply $12M per month, proving the stated numbers do not align.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Introducing Anne Gretland and Her Career Background 5211 Nathan introduces Anne Gretland and establishes Fotoware's 20-year background and origin story. The tone is collaborative and conversational as Anne provides foundational context.
Migrating from On-Premise Legacy to Cloud SaaS 6313 Nathan drills into the mechanics of the cloud migration, probing into pricing tiers, storage upsells, and the 80/20 on-prem to cloud revenue split.
User Demographics and Direct-to-Digital Scalability 7426 Nathan challenges the arithmetic when multiplying customer counts by average contract values, surfacing an initial discrepancy caused by currency conversions. Anne then educates Nathan on enterprise cloud migration cycles based on her Microsoft background.
Team Footprint, Bootstrapping History, and Financial Truth 8217 Nathan rigorously fact-checks stated revenue against employee headcount costs, prompting Anne to quickly correct her figures from monthly NOK to $5M USD annual run rate.
Marketing Scaling and Customer Acquisition Strategy 6314 Nathan presses on customer acquisition cost and churn metrics, with Anne transparently admitting she hasn't calculated CAC yet but presenting detailed logo churn data.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 4112 Nathan runs through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, nudging Anne to keep responses concise while discussing leadership books and sleep habits.
Episode Conclusion and Photoware Strategic Recap 0000 Host monologue concluding the episode and summarizing Fotoware's core SaaS metrics, headcount, and transition strategy.

Statements from this episode (10)

Assertion Partly supported
Fotoware Was Founded in Norway by Two Photojournalists
“It was one of the first companies who invented something that they know now call as a software management or asset management. It was founded by two photojournalists who worked in Norway”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 2:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Fotoware Revenue Is 80% On-Premise and 20% Cloud
“And so this bit, though, I'd say would be about 80, 80% on-premise and 20 cloud.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 4:52
Disclosure
Fotoware SaaS Pricing Ranges From $500 to $20,000 Monthly
“It would be anything from 500 dollars a month to, you know, up to 20, 20,000 dollars a month.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 6:06
Disclosure
Police Use Fotoware to Manage Criminal Investigation Evidence
“We have police customers. We have evidence Based customers. We have customers who are using our systems to find and locate pictures that not only have been taken because they want to use them, but they have been taken because they're part of a criminal investi…”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 7:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Fotoware has about 4,000 paying customer organizations
“About 4000 customers.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 8:41
Prediction Not publicly verifiable
Fotoware Revenue Will Dip Through 2019 Amid Cloud Transition
“So we will see a dip in, in this year and probably the next year as well in revenue, but a huge increase in customers.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 11:40
Assertion Partly supported
Bootstrapped Fotoware Has Been Profitable Since Month Two
“When the company was started 20 years ago, they actually made money from the second month. That's great. And they've been making money, and they have been profitable ever since. So they've just grown organically, and they've never taken on any extra capital fr…”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 13:54
Assertion Supported
Fotoware Generates $5 Million in Annual Revenue
“I think that my, I'm messing up the dollar and the Norwegian thing, because I made a small calculation on the side here, and we are making five million US dollars on average a year.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 14:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Fotoware had only one marketing manager and two sales reps when Gretland started
“When I started, we only had one marketing manager and we only had two people who were selling.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 15:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Fotoware Lost 100 On-Premise Customers Last Year and Zero on SaaS
“But when we see last year, we lost about a hundred customers. On premise, but nobody on SaaS.”
Anne Gretland Aug 4, 2018 ▶ 17:49
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