StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Aug 28, 2018 · 18m · top-founders

1130 "We're way cheaper than Mailchimp", is that enough?

Yannis Psarras · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Moosend CEO Yannis Psarras to analyze how the bootstrapped email marketing platform scaled to $140,000 in monthly recurring revenue by offering an affordable, automation-rich alternative to Mailchimp.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.4 Guest teaching 2.2 Guest disagreement 2.0 Nathan pushing back 3.6
05100:0010:001:43–6:23 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Moosend Platform Overview and MailChimp Differentiation Latka challenges Psarras on Moosend's pricing claims and unlimited send model, arguing it enables spammers. Psarras firmly pushes back, clarifying the distinction between ARPU and starter pricing and explaining their anti-abuse measures.6:23–9:26 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Revenue Breakdown, Churn Mitigation, and Team Structure Latka drills into customer numbers, monthly revenue, and highlights that a 6% monthly logo churn equates to over 70% annualized turnover. Psarras calmly details customer support and deliverability initiatives.9:29–13:38 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sponsor Message: Sideline App for Business Communications Following an ad read, Latka calculates lifetime value on the fly from churn and ARPU metrics. Psarras discusses customer onboarding stickiness and admits almost all users import existing lists.13:38–15:56 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Revenue History, and Client Concentration Latka explores bootstrap growth rates and presses for exact figures when Psarras mentions a revenue slowdown, revealing a $15k/month client downsizing.15:56–17:30 · Nathan as informed peer 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly, brief answers.1:43–6:23 · Guest teaching 5/10 Moosend Platform Overview and MailChimp Differentiation Latka challenges Psarras on Moosend's pricing claims and unlimited send model, arguing it enables spammers. Psarras firmly pushes back, clarifying the distinction between ARPU and starter pricing and explaining their anti-abuse measures.6:23–9:26 · Guest teaching 2/10 Revenue Breakdown, Churn Mitigation, and Team Structure Latka drills into customer numbers, monthly revenue, and highlights that a 6% monthly logo churn equates to over 70% annualized turnover. Psarras calmly details customer support and deliverability initiatives.9:29–13:38 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Message: Sideline App for Business Communications Following an ad read, Latka calculates lifetime value on the fly from churn and ARPU metrics. Psarras discusses customer onboarding stickiness and admits almost all users import existing lists.13:38–15:56 · Guest teaching 2/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Revenue History, and Client Concentration Latka explores bootstrap growth rates and presses for exact figures when Psarras mentions a revenue slowdown, revealing a $15k/month client downsizing.15:56–17:30 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly, brief answers.1:43–6:23 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Moosend Platform Overview and MailChimp Differentiation Latka challenges Psarras on Moosend's pricing claims and unlimited send model, arguing it enables spammers. Psarras firmly pushes back, clarifying the distinction between ARPU and starter pricing and explaining their anti-abuse measures.6:23–9:26 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Revenue Breakdown, Churn Mitigation, and Team Structure Latka drills into customer numbers, monthly revenue, and highlights that a 6% monthly logo churn equates to over 70% annualized turnover. Psarras calmly details customer support and deliverability initiatives.9:29–13:38 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sponsor Message: Sideline App for Business Communications Following an ad read, Latka calculates lifetime value on the fly from churn and ARPU metrics. Psarras discusses customer onboarding stickiness and admits almost all users import existing lists.13:38–15:56 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Revenue History, and Client Concentration Latka explores bootstrap growth rates and presses for exact figures when Psarras mentions a revenue slowdown, revealing a $15k/month client downsizing.15:56–17:30 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly, brief answers.1:43–6:23 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Moosend Platform Overview and MailChimp Differentiation Latka challenges Psarras on Moosend's pricing claims and unlimited send model, arguing it enables spammers. Psarras firmly pushes back, clarifying the distinction between ARPU and starter pricing and explaining their anti-abuse measures.6:23–9:26 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Revenue Breakdown, Churn Mitigation, and Team Structure Latka drills into customer numbers, monthly revenue, and highlights that a 6% monthly logo churn equates to over 70% annualized turnover. Psarras calmly details customer support and deliverability initiatives.9:29–13:38 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Sponsor Message: Sideline App for Business Communications Following an ad read, Latka calculates lifetime value on the fly from churn and ARPU metrics. Psarras discusses customer onboarding stickiness and admits almost all users import existing lists.13:38–15:56 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Revenue History, and Client Concentration Latka explores bootstrap growth rates and presses for exact figures when Psarras mentions a revenue slowdown, revealing a $15k/month client downsizing.15:56–17:30 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly, brief answers.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 57.5% · guest 42.5%0:00 · Nathan 57.5% · guest 42.5%3:00 · Nathan 15.1% · guest 84.9%3:00 · Nathan 15.1% · guest 84.9%6:00 · Nathan 32% · guest 68%6:00 · Nathan 32% · guest 68%9:00 · Nathan 71% · guest 29%9:00 · Nathan 71% · guest 29%12:00 · Nathan 28.2% · guest 71.8%12:00 · Nathan 28.2% · guest 71.8%15:00 · Nathan 39.9% · guest 60.1%15:00 · Nathan 39.9% · guest 60.1%18:00 · Nathan 93.6% · guest 6.4%18:00 · Nathan 93.6% · guest 6.4%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 5:13 Rejecting the spammer's dream accusation

Psarras directly interrupts and rejects Latka's assertion that flat-fee unlimited sending makes the tool a spammer's dream, detailing how subscriber-tier pricing and engagement detection prevent abuse.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 5:07 Accusing the platform of being built for spam

Latka confronts Psarras by stating Moosend's unlimited send flat-fee model sounds like an ideal mechanism for spammers to exploit.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 3:33 Differentiating ARPU from entry-tier pricing

When Latka claims Moosend's $200 price point is not cheaper than MailChimp, Psarras clarifies that $200 represents blended ARPU while individual tiers remain 40% cheaper on average.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 11:49 Live SaaS LTV calculation

Latka demonstrates SaaS financial mastery by converting 6% monthly churn into 16.6 months average lifetime and computing a $3,000+ customer lifetime value from ARPU.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Moosend Platform Overview and MailChimp Differentiation 6557 Latka challenges Psarras on Moosend's pricing claims and unlimited send model, arguing it enables spammers. Psarras firmly pushes back, clarifying the distinction between ARPU and starter pricing and explaining their anti-abuse measures.
Revenue Breakdown, Churn Mitigation, and Team Structure 5214 Latka drills into customer numbers, monthly revenue, and highlights that a 6% monthly logo churn equates to over 70% annualized turnover. Psarras calmly details customer support and deliverability initiatives.
Sponsor Message: Sideline App for Business Communications 6212 Following an ad read, Latka calculates lifetime value on the fly from churn and ARPU metrics. Psarras discusses customer onboarding stickiness and admits almost all users import existing lists.
Bootstrapping Strategy, Revenue History, and Client Concentration 4224 Latka explores bootstrap growth rates and presses for exact figures when Psarras mentions a revenue slowdown, revealing a $15k/month client downsizing.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 1011 Standard Famous Five rapid-fire closing questions with friendly, brief answers.

Statements from this episode (12)

Disclosure
Psarras: Moosend's average revenue per user is $200 per month
“So the average revenue per user per month is 200 dollars.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 3:40
Assertion Partly supported
Psarras: Moosend plans are on average 40% cheaper than Mailchimp
“Well, 40%, on average, every plan that we have is 40% cheaper than Meltium.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 3:51
Disclosure
Psarras: Moosend places no restrictions on monthly campaign send volumes
“We don't have restrictions about the number of campaigns you can send. So you can send one or 1000 campaigns a month, and we don't basically restrict, restrict you on the number of campaigns you can send.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 3:59
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: Moosend has over 1,000 active customers
“We are currently running at around 1001 thousand a bit active users, active customers.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 6:39
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: Moosend generates $135K to $140K in monthly recurring revenue
“No, no, it's 135, that sort of thing. So yeah, around 140, as you said.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 7:05
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: Moosend sees 6% monthly logo churn versus 8% industry average
“The average churn in the industry from what we've gathered in terms of our data, it's eight percent. We are below eight percent churn on our product. We're about six, six percent churn.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 7:16
Insight
Psarras: Customer support is the primary way to beat churn in SaaS
“I think personally that support in this business is basically the way to be churned.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 7:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: Moosend spends zero dollars on paid ads to acquire customers
“We, right now, we don't spend a one dollar on, on, on ads. We don't spend money on ads.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 8:47
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: Moosend employs 25 people across product, sales, marketing, and operations
“So 25 people are in total in the company. So we'll have 10, 10, 12 people in product. We'll have around four people on sales, two people on marketing and operations is the rest.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 9:16
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: 90% to 95% of Moosend customers import existing email lists
“A hundred percent the first. I would say 95% the first... At the end of the day 90%, 95% of our customers import lists from Some place, some tool.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 13:08
Disclosure
Psarras: Moosend is 100% bootstrapped and has not raised outside capital
“We haven't raised capital at all right now. We're a hundred percent bootstrapped and we have external advisors that, you know, we go to sometimes ask questions or you know, make, make sure that our strategy aligns with what we're trying to achieve. But we have…”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 13:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Psarras: No single customer accounts for over 10% of MRR
“We have one or two, let's say, whales on our you know, on our revenue sheet right now, but overall we don't, you know, we're quite, quite segmented in that respect.”
Yannis Psarras Aug 28, 2018 ▶ 15:41
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more