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Oct 26, 2018 · 18m · top-founders

1189 Sococo is a Visual Slack doing $240k MRR, 60% yoy Growth

Mark Kirschbaum · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Sococo CEO Mark Kirschbaum to analyze how the visual virtual office platform executed a successful turnaround, reaching over $240,000 in MRR with 60% year-over-year growth.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 43.6% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 1.2 Guest disagreement 1.5 Nathan pushing back 2.8
05100:0010:000:00–2:00 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Episode Preview and Sococo Company Overview Introductory monologue and audio clip teaser previewing the episode details, company figures, and guest background.2:00–5:08 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sococo Virtual Workplace Platform and Visual Differentiators Nathan probes how Sococo differentiates from tools like Slack and computes unit economics and ACV based on seat pricing on the fly.5:09–7:28 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Turnaround Strategy and Organizational Leadership Nathan inquires about Mark's turnaround executive background and playfully needles him about firing staff vs. firing on all cylinders.7:29–11:09 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Sococo Historical Capital, Executive Shift, and Product Repositioning Nathan presses Mark on historical capital and the sensitive circumstances around replacing the previous CEO, pushing past Mark's PR framing until Mark admits the transition was likely rough.11:12–16:23 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Sponsor Break: AdRoll Digital Growth Platform Nathan drills deep into MRR, growth rates, fundraising targets, and questions how Mark calculates CAC payback when claiming zero marketing ad spend.16:24–17:40 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Mark through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, quickly redirecting him when Mark names his own tool as favorite software.0:00–2:00 · Guest teaching 0/10 Episode Preview and Sococo Company Overview Introductory monologue and audio clip teaser previewing the episode details, company figures, and guest background.2:00–5:08 · Guest teaching 1/10 Sococo Virtual Workplace Platform and Visual Differentiators Nathan probes how Sococo differentiates from tools like Slack and computes unit economics and ACV based on seat pricing on the fly.5:09–7:28 · Guest teaching 2/10 Turnaround Strategy and Organizational Leadership Nathan inquires about Mark's turnaround executive background and playfully needles him about firing staff vs. firing on all cylinders.7:29–11:09 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sococo Historical Capital, Executive Shift, and Product Repositioning Nathan presses Mark on historical capital and the sensitive circumstances around replacing the previous CEO, pushing past Mark's PR framing until Mark admits the transition was likely rough.11:12–16:23 · Guest teaching 2/10 Sponsor Break: AdRoll Digital Growth Platform Nathan drills deep into MRR, growth rates, fundraising targets, and questions how Mark calculates CAC payback when claiming zero marketing ad spend.16:24–17:40 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Mark through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, quickly redirecting him when Mark names his own tool as favorite software.0:00–2:00 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Episode Preview and Sococo Company Overview Introductory monologue and audio clip teaser previewing the episode details, company figures, and guest background.2:00–5:08 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Sococo Virtual Workplace Platform and Visual Differentiators Nathan probes how Sococo differentiates from tools like Slack and computes unit economics and ACV based on seat pricing on the fly.5:09–7:28 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Turnaround Strategy and Organizational Leadership Nathan inquires about Mark's turnaround executive background and playfully needles him about firing staff vs. firing on all cylinders.7:29–11:09 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Sococo Historical Capital, Executive Shift, and Product Repositioning Nathan presses Mark on historical capital and the sensitive circumstances around replacing the previous CEO, pushing past Mark's PR framing until Mark admits the transition was likely rough.11:12–16:23 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Sponsor Break: AdRoll Digital Growth Platform Nathan drills deep into MRR, growth rates, fundraising targets, and questions how Mark calculates CAC payback when claiming zero marketing ad spend.16:24–17:40 · Guest disagreement 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Mark through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, quickly redirecting him when Mark names his own tool as favorite software.0:00–2:00 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Episode Preview and Sococo Company Overview Introductory monologue and audio clip teaser previewing the episode details, company figures, and guest background.2:00–5:08 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Sococo Virtual Workplace Platform and Visual Differentiators Nathan probes how Sococo differentiates from tools like Slack and computes unit economics and ACV based on seat pricing on the fly.5:09–7:28 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Turnaround Strategy and Organizational Leadership Nathan inquires about Mark's turnaround executive background and playfully needles him about firing staff vs. firing on all cylinders.7:29–11:09 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Sococo Historical Capital, Executive Shift, and Product Repositioning Nathan presses Mark on historical capital and the sensitive circumstances around replacing the previous CEO, pushing past Mark's PR framing until Mark admits the transition was likely rough.11:12–16:23 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Sponsor Break: AdRoll Digital Growth Platform Nathan drills deep into MRR, growth rates, fundraising targets, and questions how Mark calculates CAC payback when claiming zero marketing ad spend.16:24–17:40 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan guides Mark through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, quickly redirecting him when Mark names his own tool as favorite software.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 67.3% · guest 32.7%0:00 · Nathan 67.3% · guest 32.7%3:00 · Nathan 23.5% · guest 76.5%3:00 · Nathan 23.5% · guest 76.5%6:00 · Nathan 23% · guest 77%6:00 · Nathan 23% · guest 77%9:00 · Nathan 41.9% · guest 58.1%9:00 · Nathan 41.9% · guest 58.1%12:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%12:00 · Nathan 45.1% · guest 54.9%15:00 · Nathan 52.6% · guest 47.4%15:00 · Nathan 52.6% · guest 47.4%18:00 · Nathan 94.7% · guest 5.3%18:00 · Nathan 94.7% · guest 5.3%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:02 Mark guards CEO transition details

Mark attempts to shut down inquiries regarding the previous CEO's departure by citing confidentiality and insisting on a smooth transition before admitting it was likely rough.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 9:03 Nathan demands reasons for executive change

Nathan refuses generic answers about product updates and directly pushes Mark to explain why the board felt growth was inadequate.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:31 Mark explains spatial virtual office vs Slack

Mark clearly outlines the psychological and operational difference between an asynchronous chat tool and a visual real-time map of office presence.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 15:13 Nathan breaks down fully loaded CAC math

When Mark states they don't spend on marketing yet claim a 12-month CAC payback, Nathan immediately clarifies that internal labor and onboarding costs constitute their fully diluted CAC.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Episode Preview and Sococo Company Overview 0000 Introductory monologue and audio clip teaser previewing the episode details, company figures, and guest background.
Sococo Virtual Workplace Platform and Visual Differentiators 6111 Nathan probes how Sococo differentiates from tools like Slack and computes unit economics and ACV based on seat pricing on the fly.
Turnaround Strategy and Organizational Leadership 5223 Nathan inquires about Mark's turnaround executive background and playfully needles him about firing staff vs. firing on all cylinders.
Sococo Historical Capital, Executive Shift, and Product Repositioning 6236 Nathan presses Mark on historical capital and the sensitive circumstances around replacing the previous CEO, pushing past Mark's PR framing until Mark admits the transition was likely rough.
Sponsor Break: AdRoll Digital Growth Platform 7225 Nathan drills deep into MRR, growth rates, fundraising targets, and questions how Mark calculates CAC payback when claiming zero marketing ad spend.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3012 Nathan guides Mark through the Famous Five rapid-fire questions, quickly redirecting him when Mark names his own tool as favorite software.

Statements from this episode (14)

Opinion
Latka Compares Sococo to a Virtual Reality Play Ten Years Early
“This feels like a VR play 10 years from now.”
Nathan Latka Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 3:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sococo Pilots Start at 50 Seats and Expand to Thousands
“You know, from a land and expand approach, if it's a team that is getting on board, then you're looking at 50 to a hundred users initially in a pilot. And that has grown for our customers into the hundreds. And we actually have customers in the thousands of us…”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 4:03
Disclosure
Sococo Charges $15 Per User Monthly for Virtual Office SaaS
“It's 15 dollars on a per user basis. And then obviously there's an annual discount and a volume discount.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 4:23
Disclosure
Kirschbaum Originally Joined Sococo Board to Represent Lead Investor
“So I represent the lead investor as one of my clients who's the lead investor in Sokoko and has continued to support the company financially.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 5:28
Assertion Partly supported
Sococo Raised $10M to $14M Total Across Two Funding Phases
“Yeah, so since 2015, 2015 or so, there's been approximately, you know, five to seven million dollars that has gone into the company, and the three years prior to that, there was probably about the same amount of money.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 8:00
Disclosure
Kirschbaum Pivoted Sococo From Proprietary Stack to Third-Party Integrations
“So it was a completely proprietary platform. And now the shift has been since coming on board so that it is focused on Connecting to the other tools that people use and make them available inside Sokoko. For example, Slack.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 8:49
Insight
Kirschbaum: Turnarounds Require Relentless Message Repetition for Employee Buy-In
“And so much of it is focused on communication and consistency in the messaging, right? Because if it's in my head, I got it and I'm committed, but how do I make sure I translate that to the employees and repeat it consistently and then give examples of how we'…”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 10:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sococo Reaches Tens of Thousands of Users and Fortune 100 Clients
“So we have scaled you know, into the good, strong five digits of users and several hundred, hundred customers. [757] Nathan Latka: Okay. [757] Mark Kirschbaum: And these include fortune 100 companies.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 12:30
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sococo Hits 61% Year-Over-Year Revenue Growth Under Kirschbaum
“So we're growing 66% year over year. [826] Mark Kirschbaum: Excuse me, 61%.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 13:43
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sococo Maintains 92% Customer Logo and Net Revenue Retention
“And we've had 92% customer retention. [830] Nathan Latka: That's logo or revenue? [833] Mark Kirschbaum: that is both logo and revenue.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 13:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sococo Converts 20% to 30% of Daily Organic Inbound Leads
“And we're seeing 20 to 40 walk-up leads a day coming into Sokoko, and we're converting those at about a 20 to 30% clip.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 14:00
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Kirschbaum Aims for Sococo to Break $1M MRR by Late 2019
“My goal for end of 2019 is to break the one million MRR.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 14:44
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Sococo Achieves 12 to 13 Month CAC Payback Period
“We're recovering that in about 12 to 13 months.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 15:04
Disclosure
Sococo Plans to Raise $7M Growth Round in Coming Months
“So we're looking to raise in the seven million dollar range in the next few months.”
Mark Kirschbaum Oct 26, 2018 ▶ 16:02
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