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Dec 22, 2018 · 20m · top-founders

1246 What the hell does "We revolutionize everything" mean?

Nicholas Kimla · 12m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this contentious episode of The Top Entrepreneurs podcast, host Nathan Latka interviews Pipeliner CRM founder Nicholas Kimla regarding his bootstrapped enterprise sales software. The discussion reaches an impasse as Latka pushes for hard financial metrics and competitive differentiation while Kimla defends his visual sales philosophy, culminating in an abrupt end to the interview.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 29.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.3 Guest teaching 3.2 Guest disagreement 6.5 Nathan pushing back 7.2
05100:0010:0020:001:30–3:42 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Relocating to the US and Clarifying Customer Counts Latka immediately presses Kimla to specify exact paying customer counts after vague estimations ranging from hundreds to over a thousand. Kimla provides background on relocating from Austria to the US and eventually clarifies having over 700 enterprise B2B customers.3:43–6:27 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Pipeliner's Pricing Architecture and Enterprise Client Base Latka probes Pipeliner's pricing structure and annual contract value (ACV), trying to estimate average deal size. Kimla details tier mixing across enterprise seats but explicitly refuses to disclose exact ACV numbers on a public forum.6:28–10:22 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Defining Market Revolution: World-Check Legacy vs. CRM Innovation Latka challenges Kimla's claim of revolutionizing the CRM space by asking for tangible meaning behind the buzzword. Kimla recounts his history creating World-Check and its post-9/11 banking compliance success before pivoting to his sales philosophy.10:23–14:03 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Churn Resistance, and Revenue Estimations When Latka asks about churn, Kimla flatly refuses to share metrics and compares his journey to Google's early skepticism. Latka pushes back hard, calculating estimated revenue under one million per month and demanding concrete data points.14:03–18:46 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Debating Product Differentiation and Competing CRM Giants Latka presses Kimla on technical differentiation versus rivals like HubSpot and Infusionsoft, citing specific ARR and user benchmarks. Kimla accuses Latka of using buzzwords and dismisses HubSpot's CRM capabilities.18:46–20:23 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Conversational Impasse and Abrupt Interview Termination The exchange breaks down when Kimla refuses further questions and demands pre-approved topics, asking if Latka has read his 44 ebooks. Latka responds by defending his industry research and abruptly terminating the interview.1:30–3:42 · Guest teaching 3/10 Relocating to the US and Clarifying Customer Counts Latka immediately presses Kimla to specify exact paying customer counts after vague estimations ranging from hundreds to over a thousand. Kimla provides background on relocating from Austria to the US and eventually clarifies having over 700 enterprise B2B customers.3:43–6:27 · Guest teaching 3/10 Pipeliner's Pricing Architecture and Enterprise Client Base Latka probes Pipeliner's pricing structure and annual contract value (ACV), trying to estimate average deal size. Kimla details tier mixing across enterprise seats but explicitly refuses to disclose exact ACV numbers on a public forum.6:28–10:22 · Guest teaching 4/10 Defining Market Revolution: World-Check Legacy vs. CRM Innovation Latka challenges Kimla's claim of revolutionizing the CRM space by asking for tangible meaning behind the buzzword. Kimla recounts his history creating World-Check and its post-9/11 banking compliance success before pivoting to his sales philosophy.10:23–14:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Churn Resistance, and Revenue Estimations When Latka asks about churn, Kimla flatly refuses to share metrics and compares his journey to Google's early skepticism. Latka pushes back hard, calculating estimated revenue under one million per month and demanding concrete data points.14:03–18:46 · Guest teaching 4/10 Debating Product Differentiation and Competing CRM Giants Latka presses Kimla on technical differentiation versus rivals like HubSpot and Infusionsoft, citing specific ARR and user benchmarks. Kimla accuses Latka of using buzzwords and dismisses HubSpot's CRM capabilities.18:46–20:23 · Guest teaching 2/10 Conversational Impasse and Abrupt Interview Termination The exchange breaks down when Kimla refuses further questions and demands pre-approved topics, asking if Latka has read his 44 ebooks. Latka responds by defending his industry research and abruptly terminating the interview.1:30–3:42 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Relocating to the US and Clarifying Customer Counts Latka immediately presses Kimla to specify exact paying customer counts after vague estimations ranging from hundreds to over a thousand. Kimla provides background on relocating from Austria to the US and eventually clarifies having over 700 enterprise B2B customers.3:43–6:27 · Guest disagreement 6/10 Pipeliner's Pricing Architecture and Enterprise Client Base Latka probes Pipeliner's pricing structure and annual contract value (ACV), trying to estimate average deal size. Kimla details tier mixing across enterprise seats but explicitly refuses to disclose exact ACV numbers on a public forum.6:28–10:22 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Defining Market Revolution: World-Check Legacy vs. CRM Innovation Latka challenges Kimla's claim of revolutionizing the CRM space by asking for tangible meaning behind the buzzword. Kimla recounts his history creating World-Check and its post-9/11 banking compliance success before pivoting to his sales philosophy.10:23–14:03 · Guest disagreement 8/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Churn Resistance, and Revenue Estimations When Latka asks about churn, Kimla flatly refuses to share metrics and compares his journey to Google's early skepticism. Latka pushes back hard, calculating estimated revenue under one million per month and demanding concrete data points.14:03–18:46 · Guest disagreement 8/10 Debating Product Differentiation and Competing CRM Giants Latka presses Kimla on technical differentiation versus rivals like HubSpot and Infusionsoft, citing specific ARR and user benchmarks. Kimla accuses Latka of using buzzwords and dismisses HubSpot's CRM capabilities.18:46–20:23 · Guest disagreement 9/10 Conversational Impasse and Abrupt Interview Termination The exchange breaks down when Kimla refuses further questions and demands pre-approved topics, asking if Latka has read his 44 ebooks. Latka responds by defending his industry research and abruptly terminating the interview.1:30–3:42 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Relocating to the US and Clarifying Customer Counts Latka immediately presses Kimla to specify exact paying customer counts after vague estimations ranging from hundreds to over a thousand. Kimla provides background on relocating from Austria to the US and eventually clarifies having over 700 enterprise B2B customers.3:43–6:27 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Pipeliner's Pricing Architecture and Enterprise Client Base Latka probes Pipeliner's pricing structure and annual contract value (ACV), trying to estimate average deal size. Kimla details tier mixing across enterprise seats but explicitly refuses to disclose exact ACV numbers on a public forum.6:28–10:22 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Defining Market Revolution: World-Check Legacy vs. CRM Innovation Latka challenges Kimla's claim of revolutionizing the CRM space by asking for tangible meaning behind the buzzword. Kimla recounts his history creating World-Check and its post-9/11 banking compliance success before pivoting to his sales philosophy.10:23–14:03 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Bootstrapping Strategy, Churn Resistance, and Revenue Estimations When Latka asks about churn, Kimla flatly refuses to share metrics and compares his journey to Google's early skepticism. Latka pushes back hard, calculating estimated revenue under one million per month and demanding concrete data points.14:03–18:46 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Debating Product Differentiation and Competing CRM Giants Latka presses Kimla on technical differentiation versus rivals like HubSpot and Infusionsoft, citing specific ARR and user benchmarks. Kimla accuses Latka of using buzzwords and dismisses HubSpot's CRM capabilities.18:46–20:23 · Nathan pushing back 9/10 Conversational Impasse and Abrupt Interview Termination The exchange breaks down when Kimla refuses further questions and demands pre-approved topics, asking if Latka has read his 44 ebooks. Latka responds by defending his industry research and abruptly terminating the interview.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 47.9% · guest 52.1%0:00 · Nathan 47.9% · guest 52.1%3:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%3:00 · Nathan 25.9% · guest 74.1%6:00 · Nathan 5.5% · guest 94.5%6:00 · Nathan 5.5% · guest 94.5%9:00 · Nathan 25.3% · guest 74.7%9:00 · Nathan 25.3% · guest 74.7%12:00 · Nathan 29.7% · guest 70.3%12:00 · Nathan 29.7% · guest 70.3%15:00 · Nathan 30.2% · guest 69.8%15:00 · Nathan 30.2% · guest 69.8%18:00 · Nathan 47.9% · guest 52.1%18:00 · Nathan 47.9% · guest 52.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 19:27 Guest demands legitimate questions and cites his 44 ebooks

Kimla completely refuses to answer capital allocation questions and confronts Latka for not reading his 200 blog posts and 44 ebooks.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 19:49 Latka terminates the interview over lack of substance

Latka refuses to allow the guest to hide behind buzzwords without numbers, cuts the conversation short, and signs off.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:36 Kimla details World-Check's 9/11 compliance legacy

Kimla educates Latka on building the world's leading financial crime prevention database that matched 17 of 19 post-9/11 suspects.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 18:05 Latka cites Infusionsoft and HubSpot CRM metrics

Latka refutes Kimla's dismissal of competitors by rattling off Clayton Mask's 175k paying customers and $10M MRR alongside HubSpot's million-user free CRM adoption.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Relocating to the US and Clarifying Customer Counts 5346 Latka immediately presses Kimla to specify exact paying customer counts after vague estimations ranging from hundreds to over a thousand. Kimla provides background on relocating from Austria to the US and eventually clarifies having over 700 enterprise B2B customers.
Pipeliner's Pricing Architecture and Enterprise Client Base 6366 Latka probes Pipeliner's pricing structure and annual contract value (ACV), trying to estimate average deal size. Kimla details tier mixing across enterprise seats but explicitly refuses to disclose exact ACV numbers on a public forum.
Defining Market Revolution: World-Check Legacy vs. CRM Innovation 5446 Latka challenges Kimla's claim of revolutionizing the CRM space by asking for tangible meaning behind the buzzword. Kimla recounts his history creating World-Check and its post-9/11 banking compliance success before pivoting to his sales philosophy.
Bootstrapping Strategy, Churn Resistance, and Revenue Estimations 7388 When Latka asks about churn, Kimla flatly refuses to share metrics and compares his journey to Google's early skepticism. Latka pushes back hard, calculating estimated revenue under one million per month and demanding concrete data points.
Debating Product Differentiation and Competing CRM Giants 8488 Latka presses Kimla on technical differentiation versus rivals like HubSpot and Infusionsoft, citing specific ARR and user benchmarks. Kimla accuses Latka of using buzzwords and dismisses HubSpot's CRM capabilities.
Conversational Impasse and Abrupt Interview Termination 7299 The exchange breaks down when Kimla refuses further questions and demands pre-approved topics, asking if Latka has read his 44 ebooks. Latka responds by defending his industry research and abruptly terminating the interview.

Statements from this episode (9)

Opinion
Kimla: Starting a CRM from scratch in Europe will not work
“If you want to start it from really from the scratch in Europe, especially in Vienna, it will not work. The market is too small.”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 1:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kimla: Pipeliner CRM has over 700 paid B2B customers globally
“If you really go to big companies in that area and not are using the single individual users, we have over 700 paid Like companies B to B in 35 countries.”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 3:25
Disclosure
Kimla: Pipeliner has 40 Australian clients without local salespeople
“We have enterprise customers like AG Gallagher is one of the biggest insurance company in the world, broker company in Australia, where I have not even salespeople there. I have not even anyone, and we have 40 companies in Australia really like AG Gallagher wi…”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 5:51
Assertion Partly supported
Kimla: Thomson Reuters acquired his previous company for $500M
“Well, as I said, our, the company, my team and I have created and revolutionized already one industry and that was acquired by Thomson Reuters for half a billion dollars.”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 6:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Kimla: World-Check's database contained 17 of the 19 9/11 hijackers
“George W. Bush, 10 days after nine-eleven, gave out a list of 19 most wanted terrorists, and we had in the database, World Check, 17.”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 8:27
Assertion Contradicted
Kimla: Pipeliner CRM Charges $780 to $1,020 Per Seat Annually
“So a business costs, 780 dollars per user per seat per year. And we have 1020 for enterprise per user per seat per year.”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 12:33
Opinion
Kimla: HubSpot is not a CRM; it is a marketing automation tool
“HubSpot is not a CRM system. First of all, it's a marketing automation tool.”
Nicholas Kimla Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 18:02
Assertion Not publicly verifiable
Latka: HubSpot's free CRM has surpassed 1 million users
“HubSpot has a free CRM that's getting market share very, very quickly with over a million users.”
Nathan Latka Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 18:06
Assertion Contradicted
Latka: Infusionsoft has over 175,000 paying customers and $10M MRR
“They've passed a 175,000 paying customers and ten million a month in MRR.”
Nathan Latka Dec 22, 2018 ▶ 18:16
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