StarZero All shows Try the podcast clipper →

Apr 20, 2019 · 16m · top-founders

1365 He's Paid $250k to Travel Influencers on Behalf of Brands

Roger Wu · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Nathan Latka interviews Roger Wu, co-founder of Cooperatize, about building a bootstrapped influencer marketing platform that blends marketplace take rates with SaaS subscriptions. Wu shares insights on multi-touch travel attribution, lean automation, and strategies for navigating complex enterprise sales cycles.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 42.4% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.2 Guest teaching 2.0 Guest disagreement 1.0 Nathan pushing back 3.6
05100:0010:000:01–2:31 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes New Book 'How to Be a Capitalist' Segment 1 consists of a solo host monologue promoting Nathan's book and setting up the interview summary with zero host-guest interaction.2:32–5:58 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introducing Roger Wu and the Cooperatize Marketplace Concept Nathan probes the revenue mechanics and questions why Cooperatize introduced a SaaS subscription on top of its core marketplace. Roger clarifies how brand subscriptions enable non-monetary perk exchanges for micro-influencers.5:58–12:19 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Bootstrapping Capital, Launch Timeline, and Financial Scale Nathan intensely questions Roger on financial viability and attribution tracking across long travel booking windows. Roger defends their tracking methodology by clarifying they measure search intent on travel sites rather than just long-tail purchase cookies.12:20–15:15 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Navigating Industry Competition, Sales Cycles, and Strategic Options Nathan bluntly suggests Roger should sell the business given the low revenue scale and marketplace disintermediation risk. Roger responds by detailing workflow SaaS tools like AI content scoring that keep clients inside the ecosystem.15:16–16:19 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a cordial, concise manner to close out the episode.0:01–2:31 · Guest teaching 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes New Book 'How to Be a Capitalist' Segment 1 consists of a solo host monologue promoting Nathan's book and setting up the interview summary with zero host-guest interaction.2:32–5:58 · Guest teaching 2/10 Introducing Roger Wu and the Cooperatize Marketplace Concept Nathan probes the revenue mechanics and questions why Cooperatize introduced a SaaS subscription on top of its core marketplace. Roger clarifies how brand subscriptions enable non-monetary perk exchanges for micro-influencers.5:58–12:19 · Guest teaching 4/10 Bootstrapping Capital, Launch Timeline, and Financial Scale Nathan intensely questions Roger on financial viability and attribution tracking across long travel booking windows. Roger defends their tracking methodology by clarifying they measure search intent on travel sites rather than just long-tail purchase cookies.12:20–15:15 · Guest teaching 3/10 Navigating Industry Competition, Sales Cycles, and Strategic Options Nathan bluntly suggests Roger should sell the business given the low revenue scale and marketplace disintermediation risk. Roger responds by detailing workflow SaaS tools like AI content scoring that keep clients inside the ecosystem.15:16–16:19 · Guest teaching 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a cordial, concise manner to close out the episode.0:01–2:31 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes New Book 'How to Be a Capitalist' Segment 1 consists of a solo host monologue promoting Nathan's book and setting up the interview summary with zero host-guest interaction.2:32–5:58 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introducing Roger Wu and the Cooperatize Marketplace Concept Nathan probes the revenue mechanics and questions why Cooperatize introduced a SaaS subscription on top of its core marketplace. Roger clarifies how brand subscriptions enable non-monetary perk exchanges for micro-influencers.5:58–12:19 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Bootstrapping Capital, Launch Timeline, and Financial Scale Nathan intensely questions Roger on financial viability and attribution tracking across long travel booking windows. Roger defends their tracking methodology by clarifying they measure search intent on travel sites rather than just long-tail purchase cookies.12:20–15:15 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Navigating Industry Competition, Sales Cycles, and Strategic Options Nathan bluntly suggests Roger should sell the business given the low revenue scale and marketplace disintermediation risk. Roger responds by detailing workflow SaaS tools like AI content scoring that keep clients inside the ecosystem.15:16–16:19 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a cordial, concise manner to close out the episode.0:01–2:31 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Nathan Latka Promotes New Book 'How to Be a Capitalist' Segment 1 consists of a solo host monologue promoting Nathan's book and setting up the interview summary with zero host-guest interaction.2:32–5:58 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Introducing Roger Wu and the Cooperatize Marketplace Concept Nathan probes the revenue mechanics and questions why Cooperatize introduced a SaaS subscription on top of its core marketplace. Roger clarifies how brand subscriptions enable non-monetary perk exchanges for micro-influencers.5:58–12:19 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Bootstrapping Capital, Launch Timeline, and Financial Scale Nathan intensely questions Roger on financial viability and attribution tracking across long travel booking windows. Roger defends their tracking methodology by clarifying they measure search intent on travel sites rather than just long-tail purchase cookies.12:20–15:15 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Navigating Industry Competition, Sales Cycles, and Strategic Options Nathan bluntly suggests Roger should sell the business given the low revenue scale and marketplace disintermediation risk. Roger responds by detailing workflow SaaS tools like AI content scoring that keep clients inside the ecosystem.15:16–16:19 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a cordial, concise manner to close out the episode.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 98.4% · guest 1.6%0:00 · Nathan 98.4% · guest 1.6%3:00 · Nathan 18.8% · guest 81.2%3:00 · Nathan 18.8% · guest 81.2%6:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%6:00 · Nathan 22.9% · guest 77.1%9:00 · Nathan 30.9% · guest 69.1%9:00 · Nathan 30.9% · guest 69.1%12:00 · Nathan 30.6% · guest 69.4%12:00 · Nathan 30.6% · guest 69.4%15:00 · Nathan 57.8% · guest 42.2%15:00 · Nathan 57.8% · guest 42.2%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:20 Roger defends business persistence despite low revenue

When challenged on why he remains bullish after four years with modest revenue, Roger stands his ground, explaining their automated lower-cost structure against agency competitors.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:22 Nathan tells Roger to sell the company

Nathan directly challenges Roger's strategy by suggesting he cut his losses, sell the platform, and build something else.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 10:58 Roger explains intent search attribution

Roger educates Nathan on attribution reality in travel, clarifying that a win is measured by search query intent on travel engines rather than easily broken 12-month cookies.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 14:06 Nathan details marketplace disintermediation dynamics

Nathan demonstrates deep domain expertise regarding marketplace pitfalls, explaining how brands and talent regularly bypass platforms once an initial match is established.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Promotes New Book 'How to Be a Capitalist' 0000 Segment 1 consists of a solo host monologue promoting Nathan's book and setting up the interview summary with zero host-guest interaction.
Introducing Roger Wu and the Cooperatize Marketplace Concept 5213 Nathan probes the revenue mechanics and questions why Cooperatize introduced a SaaS subscription on top of its core marketplace. Roger clarifies how brand subscriptions enable non-monetary perk exchanges for micro-influencers.
Bootstrapping Capital, Launch Timeline, and Financial Scale 7427 Nathan intensely questions Roger on financial viability and attribution tracking across long travel booking windows. Roger defends their tracking methodology by clarifying they measure search intent on travel sites rather than just long-tail purchase cookies.
Navigating Industry Competition, Sales Cycles, and Strategic Options 7327 Nathan bluntly suggests Roger should sell the business given the low revenue scale and marketplace disintermediation risk. Roger responds by detailing workflow SaaS tools like AI content scoring that keep clients inside the ecosystem.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2101 Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire questions in a cordial, concise manner to close out the episode.

Statements from this episode (15)

Disclosure
Wu: Cooperatize monetizes via transaction fees connecting brands and bloggers
“We operate a marketplace that connects different brands with bloggers, as you mentioned. You know, we're a marketplace, so we take a transaction fee from each transaction that goes to the marketplace.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 3:00
Insight
Roger Wu: Bloggers across almost all niches produce travel content
“Our primary focus is in the travel space, but the exciting thing about travel is that Everybody writes about travel, whether you're a fitness blogger, you're a food blogger, or you're, you know, a family blogger.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 3:14
Disclosure
Wu: Cooperatize takes 10% to 25% commission on influencer spend
“So depending on the overall spend with Chase, we take anywhere from 10 to 25%.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 3:55
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wu: SaaS makes up under 5% of Cooperatize's revenue
“So we started the SaaS model, gosh, maybe like six months ago or so, and Just getting started less than five percent as of now.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 5:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wu: Marketing spend sees major surges in June and December
“We see a big bump in spends You know, at the end of every fiscal, so there's a lot of views that are losing kind of budgets. So June's and December, or yeah, June's and December's, we see like big bumps.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 5:37
Disclosure
Wu: Cooperatize was bootstrapped with $125,000 in personal savings
“We've put in about a 125.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 6:13
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wu: Cooperatize processed roughly $250k in trailing twelve-month transaction volume
“In the last 12 months, about a quarter million dollars, give or two.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 7:07
Assertion Supported
Wu: Follower counts and likes are easily gamed and purchased
“The metric is not followers or likes or comments or anything like that, because those are easily gamed, easily purchased.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 8:12
Insight
Wu: Social media is short-term and should drive long-form content
“We find that Social is just very short term. And we feel that social is a way to kind of drive long form content. If you look at any tweets or any Facebook posts, more likely than not, there's some kind of link there that drives you to a story.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 9:19
Disclosure
Wu: Cooperatize tracks travel search queries over purchases due to cookie decay
“We work with a company that buys all the data across United.com, Kayak.com, I mean, you name it, Hilton.com. It's only for travel, and we see that a win for us is not necessarily a purchase, because you're right, that cookie gets kicked out a billion times. A …”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 11:01
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wu: Automation Allows Cooperatize to Profitably Serve Smaller Travel Destinations
“So while everybody's going after the Californias and the Floridas of the world, we can work with smaller destinations because the minimum spend is Is, you know, as little as you want to spend because there's no humans behind it.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 12:51
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wu: Tourism destination budgets are often planned three years in advance
“It's just a long, long-term sale where we're dealing with budgets that are, you know, two, three years in advance sometimes.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 13:11
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Wu: Over 5,000 influencers have made at least $100 on Cooperatize
“At least 5000.”
Roger Wu Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 14:04
Insight
Latka: Clients often disintermediate marketplaces to avoid fees
“The thing I found with marketplace is even when you look at like a fiver or like these guys is like once, once somebody finds someone they like working with in terms of a company like working with, they typically end up taking it out of your marketplace. So yo…”
Nathan Latka Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 14:10
Opinion
Latka: No company has cracked the influencer marketing SaaS model
“I don't really think anyone has really cracked the model on kind of influencer marketing, especially in a SaaS, you know, going from marketplace to a SaaS company.”
Nathan Latka Apr 20, 2019 ▶ 16:21
Made with StarZero

Turn any episode into a week of clips.

This entire site, over 2,600 episodes transcribed, diarized, checked and made playable, runs on the StarZero media pipeline. Drop in your own episode and the podcast clipper finds the moments worth sharing, cuts them, captions them, and reframes them for every feed.

Try the podcast clipper Learn more