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Apr 28, 2019 · 20m · top-founders

1373 300 Companies Use Him to Ship, $8m in ARR, $12.5m Raised

Jeremy Bodenhamer · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 7m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

ShipHawk CEO Jeremy Bodenhamer discusses how his transportation management SaaS platform scaled past 300 mid-market customers, achieved -15% net negative revenue churn, and doubled pure software ARR through ERP partnerships and disciplined capital allocation.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.2% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.2 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 2.5 Nathan pushing back 4.2
05100:0010:0020:000:55–5:31 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Core Product Capabilities and Grove Collaborative Case Study Nathan explores ShipHawk's target audience and business model, drilling into pricing plan details such as parcel and freight shipment limitations. Jeremy clarifies Grove Collaborative's logistics structure and mid-market supply chain complexities in an amicable exchange.5:31–9:10 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Negative Revenue Churn, Expansion Dynamics, and Market Positioning Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by correctly translating negative churn metrics and cohort expansion retention. When Jeremy gives a broad overview of market fragmentation, Nathan pushes back to isolate which specific utility metric drives expansion fastest.9:10–12:20 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Customer Base Metrics, Inc. 5000 Revenue, and Growth Trajectory When Jeremy refuses to disclose revenue figures, Nathan challenges him by performing a live Inc. 5000 lookup and noting that historical revenue figures were submitted publicly. This forces Jeremy to disclose an accounting revision involving pass-through freight payments.12:20–15:18 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Team Distribution, Santa Barbara HQ, and Overseas Engineering Hub Jeremy refuses to name the country hosting ShipHawk's overseas engineering hub, citing fierce talent competition. Nathan pushes back by naming standard tech hubs and pointing out that such hubs are not industry secrets before moving to fundraising history.15:19–18:33 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Partner Channels, and Lifetime Value Nathan rapidly calculates an implied CAC of roughly $20,000 based on an eight-month payback and $50,000 ACV. Jeremy details how mid-market ERP partner channels drive organic distribution without revenue-share kickbacks.18:33–20:30 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire questions, concluding with Nathan synthesizing ShipHawk's operating metrics and financials in an extensive closing monologue.0:55–5:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 Core Product Capabilities and Grove Collaborative Case Study Nathan explores ShipHawk's target audience and business model, drilling into pricing plan details such as parcel and freight shipment limitations. Jeremy clarifies Grove Collaborative's logistics structure and mid-market supply chain complexities in an amicable exchange.5:31–9:10 · Guest teaching 4/10 Negative Revenue Churn, Expansion Dynamics, and Market Positioning Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by correctly translating negative churn metrics and cohort expansion retention. When Jeremy gives a broad overview of market fragmentation, Nathan pushes back to isolate which specific utility metric drives expansion fastest.9:10–12:20 · Guest teaching 4/10 Customer Base Metrics, Inc. 5000 Revenue, and Growth Trajectory When Jeremy refuses to disclose revenue figures, Nathan challenges him by performing a live Inc. 5000 lookup and noting that historical revenue figures were submitted publicly. This forces Jeremy to disclose an accounting revision involving pass-through freight payments.12:20–15:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 Team Distribution, Santa Barbara HQ, and Overseas Engineering Hub Jeremy refuses to name the country hosting ShipHawk's overseas engineering hub, citing fierce talent competition. Nathan pushes back by naming standard tech hubs and pointing out that such hubs are not industry secrets before moving to fundraising history.15:19–18:33 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Partner Channels, and Lifetime Value Nathan rapidly calculates an implied CAC of roughly $20,000 based on an eight-month payback and $50,000 ACV. Jeremy details how mid-market ERP partner channels drive organic distribution without revenue-share kickbacks.18:33–20:30 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire questions, concluding with Nathan synthesizing ShipHawk's operating metrics and financials in an extensive closing monologue.0:55–5:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Core Product Capabilities and Grove Collaborative Case Study Nathan explores ShipHawk's target audience and business model, drilling into pricing plan details such as parcel and freight shipment limitations. Jeremy clarifies Grove Collaborative's logistics structure and mid-market supply chain complexities in an amicable exchange.5:31–9:10 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Negative Revenue Churn, Expansion Dynamics, and Market Positioning Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by correctly translating negative churn metrics and cohort expansion retention. When Jeremy gives a broad overview of market fragmentation, Nathan pushes back to isolate which specific utility metric drives expansion fastest.9:10–12:20 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Customer Base Metrics, Inc. 5000 Revenue, and Growth Trajectory When Jeremy refuses to disclose revenue figures, Nathan challenges him by performing a live Inc. 5000 lookup and noting that historical revenue figures were submitted publicly. This forces Jeremy to disclose an accounting revision involving pass-through freight payments.12:20–15:18 · Guest disagreement 5/10 Team Distribution, Santa Barbara HQ, and Overseas Engineering Hub Jeremy refuses to name the country hosting ShipHawk's overseas engineering hub, citing fierce talent competition. Nathan pushes back by naming standard tech hubs and pointing out that such hubs are not industry secrets before moving to fundraising history.15:19–18:33 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Partner Channels, and Lifetime Value Nathan rapidly calculates an implied CAC of roughly $20,000 based on an eight-month payback and $50,000 ACV. Jeremy details how mid-market ERP partner channels drive organic distribution without revenue-share kickbacks.18:33–20:30 · Guest disagreement 0/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire questions, concluding with Nathan synthesizing ShipHawk's operating metrics and financials in an extensive closing monologue.0:55–5:31 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Core Product Capabilities and Grove Collaborative Case Study Nathan explores ShipHawk's target audience and business model, drilling into pricing plan details such as parcel and freight shipment limitations. Jeremy clarifies Grove Collaborative's logistics structure and mid-market supply chain complexities in an amicable exchange.5:31–9:10 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Negative Revenue Churn, Expansion Dynamics, and Market Positioning Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by correctly translating negative churn metrics and cohort expansion retention. When Jeremy gives a broad overview of market fragmentation, Nathan pushes back to isolate which specific utility metric drives expansion fastest.9:10–12:20 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Customer Base Metrics, Inc. 5000 Revenue, and Growth Trajectory When Jeremy refuses to disclose revenue figures, Nathan challenges him by performing a live Inc. 5000 lookup and noting that historical revenue figures were submitted publicly. This forces Jeremy to disclose an accounting revision involving pass-through freight payments.12:20–15:18 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Team Distribution, Santa Barbara HQ, and Overseas Engineering Hub Jeremy refuses to name the country hosting ShipHawk's overseas engineering hub, citing fierce talent competition. Nathan pushes back by naming standard tech hubs and pointing out that such hubs are not industry secrets before moving to fundraising history.15:19–18:33 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Acquisition Economics, Partner Channels, and Lifetime Value Nathan rapidly calculates an implied CAC of roughly $20,000 based on an eight-month payback and $50,000 ACV. Jeremy details how mid-market ERP partner channels drive organic distribution without revenue-share kickbacks.18:33–20:30 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire questions, concluding with Nathan synthesizing ShipHawk's operating metrics and financials in an extensive closing monologue.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 28.5% · guest 71.5%0:00 · Nathan 28.5% · guest 71.5%3:00 · Nathan 48.9% · guest 51.1%3:00 · Nathan 48.9% · guest 51.1%6:00 · Nathan 29.5% · guest 70.5%6:00 · Nathan 29.5% · guest 70.5%9:00 · Nathan 55.6% · guest 44.4%9:00 · Nathan 55.6% · guest 44.4%12:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%12:00 · Nathan 39.7% · guest 60.3%15:00 · Nathan 23.7% · guest 76.3%15:00 · Nathan 23.7% · guest 76.3%18:00 · Nathan 68.3% · guest 31.7%18:00 · Nathan 68.3% · guest 31.7%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 12:47 Refusal to disclose engineering office location

Jeremy directly stonewalls Nathan's question about their offshore engineering team, stating they keep the location confidential to prevent competitors from poaching talent.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:31 Live fact-checking of Inc. 5000 revenue disclosures

Nathan rejects Jeremy's claim that revenue is non-public by pulling up Inc. 5000 rankings live on air, forcing Jeremy to explain accounting adjustments.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 17:13 Why mid-market ERP partners refer deals without kickbacks

Jeremy explains that partner platforms recommend ShipHawk freely because legacy competitors consistently oversold and failed on delivery, harming the platforms' own customer relationships.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 9:30 Direct SaaS math check and revenue deduction

Nathan calculates an estimated $1.2M monthly revenue run-rate by multiplying Jeremy's disclosed customer count by average contract value, leading directly into probing legacy contract discrepancies.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Core Product Capabilities and Grove Collaborative Case Study 5312 Nathan explores ShipHawk's target audience and business model, drilling into pricing plan details such as parcel and freight shipment limitations. Jeremy clarifies Grove Collaborative's logistics structure and mid-market supply chain complexities in an amicable exchange.
Negative Revenue Churn, Expansion Dynamics, and Market Positioning 7424 Nathan demonstrates strong SaaS fluency by correctly translating negative churn metrics and cohort expansion retention. When Jeremy gives a broad overview of market fragmentation, Nathan pushes back to isolate which specific utility metric drives expansion fastest.
Customer Base Metrics, Inc. 5000 Revenue, and Growth Trajectory 8448 When Jeremy refuses to disclose revenue figures, Nathan challenges him by performing a live Inc. 5000 lookup and noting that historical revenue figures were submitted publicly. This forces Jeremy to disclose an accounting revision involving pass-through freight payments.
Team Distribution, Santa Barbara HQ, and Overseas Engineering Hub 5256 Jeremy refuses to name the country hosting ShipHawk's overseas engineering hub, citing fierce talent competition. Nathan pushes back by naming standard tech hubs and pointing out that such hubs are not industry secrets before moving to fundraising history.
Customer Acquisition Economics, Partner Channels, and Lifetime Value 7334 Nathan rapidly calculates an implied CAC of roughly $20,000 based on an eight-month payback and $50,000 ACV. Jeremy details how mid-market ERP partner channels drive organic distribution without revenue-share kickbacks.
The Famous Five Questions and Episode Conclusion 5001 The interview wraps up with standard rapid-fire questions, concluding with Nathan synthesizing ShipHawk's operating metrics and financials in an extensive closing monologue.

Statements from this episode (13)

Disclosure
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk Targets Mid-Market Companies Doing $10M to $500M in Revenue
“No, we actually work with e-commerce omni-channel retailers, manufacturers, distributors primarily in the mid-market. Usually between 10 and five hundred million in annual revenue who are in charge of their own shipping, meaning they're paying the bill.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 1:08
Disclosure
Bodenhamer: Grove Collaborative Is One of ShipHawk's Fastest-Growing Customers
“One of our fastest growing customers is a company in San Francisco called Grove Collaborative.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 2:00
Disclosure
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk's average customer pays roughly $50,000 annually
“The average is probably coming down to about 50,000 bucks a year.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 3:50
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ShipHawk achieves 115% net revenue retention across its base
“Average last I looked at the board was 15%.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 6:16
Insight
Bodenhamer: Shipping software lacks mid-market tools bridging SMB to enterprise
“What we see is we see a fragmented market. We see these SMB and micro shippers, these small guys that have plenty of point solutions. You can probably name a hundred of them. And then you have these enterprise shippers that have these multi-module, you know, v…”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 7:14
Assertion Not checkable as stated
ShipHawk expansion is driven by shipment volume over integrations
“It's their volume that grows. We do see a lot of replatforming, but it's, Aggregate across all our customers a lot. It's not per customer.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 8:28
Disclosure
ShipHawk's revenue is heavily concentrated in 50 of its 300 customers
“Those are all paying. The bulk of our revenue comes from right around 50 customers.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 9:28
Disclosure
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk altered accounting to eliminate pass-through shipping revenue
“We did some accounting changes because there was some pass through revenue there.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 11:03
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk is more than doubling ARR year-over-year
“We are more than doubling every year.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 11:53
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk has grown new customer additions quarterly for 18 months
“It is, but we are signing up more customers every single quarter than we did the previous quarter, and it's been that way for about a year and a half now.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 12:10
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk's CAC payback is sub-eight months, targeting three
“I mean, our CAC payback right now is, is sub eight months. We're trying to get it down to three. That's our target.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 15:27
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Bodenhamer: Mid-market ERP partnerships drive the bulk of ShipHawk's revenue
“Mid-market ERPs is, is where we get the bulk of our revenue.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 17:08
Opinion
Bodenhamer: ShipHawk competitors oversell and underdeliver to ERP partners
“The guys we compete against Weren't delivering on their promises. They basically oversell and under deliver, which made these partners look really bad.”
Jeremy Bodenhamer Apr 28, 2019 ▶ 17:16
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