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Jun 22, 2019 · 18m · top-founders

1428 Bootstrapped and $12m in ARR. My kinda CEO!

Max Israel · 10m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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In this episode of The Top Entrepreneurs, host Nathan Latka interviews Max Israel, CEO of Customerville, detailing how he bootstrapped a design-driven enterprise feedback platform to $12 million in annual recurring revenue. The discussion covers Customerville's transformative product pivot, lean global team structure, enterprise sales strategy, and future corporate roadmap.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 37.8% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.5 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 2.2 Nathan pushing back 3.2
05100:0010:000:00–2:12 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Promotion for Nathan Latka's Book Release Solo promotional intro and book pitch by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:12–5:14 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Founding Customerville and Pivoting Away from Boring Surveys Max explains the origin of Customerville and his pivot away from boring web-form surveys. Latka interrupts to clarify timelines and check if it was a spin-out or an internal pivot.5:14–7:37 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes and Early Bootstrapping Realities Max surprises Latka by revealing their average contract value is around $250,000 rather than low thousands. Max shares the financial hardship of bootstrapping in the early years before taking a paycheck.7:37–10:52 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Scaling Customer Base and Reaching $12 Million Run Rate Latka pieces together customer count and ACV to deduce the $12 million run rate. When Max rambles with analogies about changing airplane engines mid-flight, Latka cuts in to demand the exact growth percentage before the backstory.10:53–16:04 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Churn Management, Expansion Revenue, and Team Structure Latka presses Max on net revenue retention and expansion playbooks, which Max admits they are only just beginning to structure. Max wittily sidesteps Latka's probing question about the target sale price that his wife would accept.16:05–18:04 · Nathan as informed peer 3/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Friendly, efficient Famous Five round where Max compliments Latka's sharp memory and shares his sleep and lifestyle philosophy.0:00–2:12 · Guest teaching 0/10 Promotion for Nathan Latka's Book Release Solo promotional intro and book pitch by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:12–5:14 · Guest teaching 3/10 Founding Customerville and Pivoting Away from Boring Surveys Max explains the origin of Customerville and his pivot away from boring web-form surveys. Latka interrupts to clarify timelines and check if it was a spin-out or an internal pivot.5:14–7:37 · Guest teaching 4/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes and Early Bootstrapping Realities Max surprises Latka by revealing their average contract value is around $250,000 rather than low thousands. Max shares the financial hardship of bootstrapping in the early years before taking a paycheck.7:37–10:52 · Guest teaching 3/10 Scaling Customer Base and Reaching $12 Million Run Rate Latka pieces together customer count and ACV to deduce the $12 million run rate. When Max rambles with analogies about changing airplane engines mid-flight, Latka cuts in to demand the exact growth percentage before the backstory.10:53–16:04 · Guest teaching 4/10 Churn Management, Expansion Revenue, and Team Structure Latka presses Max on net revenue retention and expansion playbooks, which Max admits they are only just beginning to structure. Max wittily sidesteps Latka's probing question about the target sale price that his wife would accept.16:05–18:04 · Guest teaching 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Friendly, efficient Famous Five round where Max compliments Latka's sharp memory and shares his sleep and lifestyle philosophy.0:00–2:12 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promotion for Nathan Latka's Book Release Solo promotional intro and book pitch by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:12–5:14 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Founding Customerville and Pivoting Away from Boring Surveys Max explains the origin of Customerville and his pivot away from boring web-form surveys. Latka interrupts to clarify timelines and check if it was a spin-out or an internal pivot.5:14–7:37 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes and Early Bootstrapping Realities Max surprises Latka by revealing their average contract value is around $250,000 rather than low thousands. Max shares the financial hardship of bootstrapping in the early years before taking a paycheck.7:37–10:52 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Scaling Customer Base and Reaching $12 Million Run Rate Latka pieces together customer count and ACV to deduce the $12 million run rate. When Max rambles with analogies about changing airplane engines mid-flight, Latka cuts in to demand the exact growth percentage before the backstory.10:53–16:04 · Guest disagreement 4/10 Churn Management, Expansion Revenue, and Team Structure Latka presses Max on net revenue retention and expansion playbooks, which Max admits they are only just beginning to structure. Max wittily sidesteps Latka's probing question about the target sale price that his wife would accept.16:05–18:04 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Friendly, efficient Famous Five round where Max compliments Latka's sharp memory and shares his sleep and lifestyle philosophy.0:00–2:12 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promotion for Nathan Latka's Book Release Solo promotional intro and book pitch by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.2:12–5:14 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Founding Customerville and Pivoting Away from Boring Surveys Max explains the origin of Customerville and his pivot away from boring web-form surveys. Latka interrupts to clarify timelines and check if it was a spin-out or an internal pivot.5:14–7:37 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Enterprise Deal Sizes and Early Bootstrapping Realities Max surprises Latka by revealing their average contract value is around $250,000 rather than low thousands. Max shares the financial hardship of bootstrapping in the early years before taking a paycheck.7:37–10:52 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Scaling Customer Base and Reaching $12 Million Run Rate Latka pieces together customer count and ACV to deduce the $12 million run rate. When Max rambles with analogies about changing airplane engines mid-flight, Latka cuts in to demand the exact growth percentage before the backstory.10:53–16:04 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Churn Management, Expansion Revenue, and Team Structure Latka presses Max on net revenue retention and expansion playbooks, which Max admits they are only just beginning to structure. Max wittily sidesteps Latka's probing question about the target sale price that his wife would accept.16:05–18:04 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Friendly, efficient Famous Five round where Max compliments Latka's sharp memory and shares his sleep and lifestyle philosophy.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 88% · guest 12%0:00 · Nathan 88% · guest 12%3:00 · Nathan 15% · guest 85%3:00 · Nathan 15% · guest 85%6:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%6:00 · Nathan 23.9% · guest 76.1%9:00 · Nathan 29.6% · guest 70.4%9:00 · Nathan 29.6% · guest 70.4%12:00 · Nathan 21.7% · guest 78.3%12:00 · Nathan 21.7% · guest 78.3%15:00 · Nathan 46.4% · guest 53.6%15:00 · Nathan 46.4% · guest 53.6%18:00 · Nathan 87.2% · guest 12.8%18:00 · Nathan 87.2% · guest 12.8%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 15:42 Deflecting personal buyout price

When Latka pushes for the exact buyout number that would tempt him to sell, Max playfully pushes back on Latka's famously aggressive interrogation style and dodges the figure entirely.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 10:05 Cutting off narrative for hard metrics

Latka interrupts Max's mid-flight engine analogy to firmly insist on getting the concrete year-over-year revenue numbers before hearing the extended narrative.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 5:30 Correcting SaaS pricing assumptions

Max corrects Latka's expectation of $7k-$50k annual contracts by pointing out they operate as true enterprise feedback management with quarter-million dollar average deal sizes.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 7:59 Reverse-engineering the $12M ARR run rate

Latka instantly multiplies the conservative 50 customer count with the $250k ACV to pinpoint Customerville's run rate at roughly $1M per month, which Max validates.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Promotion for Nathan Latka's Book Release 0000 Solo promotional intro and book pitch by Nathan Latka with no guest interaction.
Founding Customerville and Pivoting Away from Boring Surveys 4323 Max explains the origin of Customerville and his pivot away from boring web-form surveys. Latka interrupts to clarify timelines and check if it was a spin-out or an internal pivot.
Enterprise Deal Sizes and Early Bootstrapping Realities 6424 Max surprises Latka by revealing their average contract value is around $250,000 rather than low thousands. Max shares the financial hardship of bootstrapping in the early years before taking a paycheck.
Scaling Customer Base and Reaching $12 Million Run Rate 7336 Latka pieces together customer count and ACV to deduce the $12 million run rate. When Max rambles with analogies about changing airplane engines mid-flight, Latka cuts in to demand the exact growth percentage before the backstory.
Churn Management, Expansion Revenue, and Team Structure 7445 Latka presses Max on net revenue retention and expansion playbooks, which Max admits they are only just beginning to structure. Max wittily sidesteps Latka's probing question about the target sale price that his wife would accept.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 3221 Friendly, efficient Famous Five round where Max compliments Latka's sharp memory and shares his sleep and lifestyle philosophy.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Contradicted
Americans will receive over 40 billion customer surveys in 2019
“Like, you know, Americans this year will get over forty billion surveys and they all look like you're taking the SAT test.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 3:28
Disclosure
Customerville avoided venture capital unlike its feedback software competitors
“I was one of the few players in my space that didn't raise like venture money.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 3:44
Disclosure
Customerville's average enterprise client pays roughly $250,000 annually
“No, probably a quarter million a year as an average client.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 5:37
Assertion Supported
The enterprise feedback management industry is valued in the tens of billions
“I'm in a space called enterprise feedback management, EFM. And there are many companies that do this and it's a, an, Industry that is valued in the, you know, many tens of billions of dollars.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 5:54
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Customerville serves between 50 and 100 enterprise customers globally
“So we keep those cards pretty close to the vest, but it's a number kind of, you know, between 50 and a hundred you know, globally.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 7:41
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Customerville is growing revenue between 50% and 100% year over year
“And then I would say about two years ago we started growing between 50 and a hundred percent a And today we're still at that kind of number.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 10:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Customerville aims to keep annual customer attrition at or below 10%
“We try and keep that at or below 10% because companies.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 11:01
Disclosure
Customerville operates with under 40 employees and only two salespeople
“So we're under about 40 people, but really there, I only have two sales people, one in the U S one in Europe and I pitch in with that.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 12:25
Disclosure
Customerville spent up to $400,000 annually on Google AdWords inbound marketing
“We kind of started out spending 50 to a 100,000 a year and then got up to the point where we were spending between three and 400,000 dollars a year on AdWords and related costs to drive an inbound marketing campaign.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 13:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Max Israel receives private equity or M&A inquiries every single week
“For the last two years, I've got a call from either a private equity fund or an M&A shop every single week, and I take them seriously.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 15:22
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Customerville's industry vlog gets 10,000 monthly viewers and is shot on iPhone
“If you've seen our vlog, Forty Billion Reasons, that was a side project and now some 10,000 people a month in customer experience watch it. Every second of that is shot on my iPhone.”
Max Israel Jun 22, 2019 ▶ 16:46
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