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Jul 12, 2019 · 17m · top-founders

1448 He's Selling $1.4m ARR Company For How Much?

Declan Carney · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

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Nathan Latka interviews Declan Carney, founder of PubVantage, breaking down how the bootstrapped ad tech platform reached $1.4 million in ARR with a distributed 23-person team. Declan outlines his company's SaaS unit economics and discusses the active sale of the legacy ad server business to self-fund his new reporting spinoff, All One.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 41.5% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 4.0 Guest teaching 1.7 Guest disagreement 1.3 Nathan pushing back 2.3
05100:0010:000:00–2:06 · Nathan as informed peer 0/10 Promoting How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo host intro featuring an advertisement for Latka's book and audio teaser clips from the episode.2:06–5:31 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Introduction to Declan Carney and PubVantage Overview Carney outlines the ad-tech problem PubVantage solves with DFP remnant ad space passback tags, while Latka probes on business model classification and CPM unit economics.5:32–8:12 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Spinning Off Unified Reporting Platform All One Carney explains the split of the business and the launch of All One for unified reporting, while Latka steps in to clarify the company timeline and test pricing.8:13–12:18 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 PubVantage Financial Growth and Distributed Team Structure Latka runs the math on $120k monthly revenue, 30% growth, and acquisition multiples; when Carney refuses to discuss his deal's numbers, Latka immediately redirects him to general industry multiples.12:19–15:33 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Acquisition Costs and Remote Operational Setup Latka guides Carney away from product descriptions back to financial metrics, translating a six-month payback on a $4,000 MRR into a $24,000 CAC and clarifying churn rate intervals.15:34–16:59 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Carney draws blanks on standard rapid-fire questions like favorite business books and CEOs, prompting lighthearted teasing from Latka about the books on Carney's background shelf.0:00–2:06 · Guest teaching 0/10 Promoting How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo host intro featuring an advertisement for Latka's book and audio teaser clips from the episode.2:06–5:31 · Guest teaching 3/10 Introduction to Declan Carney and PubVantage Overview Carney outlines the ad-tech problem PubVantage solves with DFP remnant ad space passback tags, while Latka probes on business model classification and CPM unit economics.5:32–8:12 · Guest teaching 3/10 Spinning Off Unified Reporting Platform All One Carney explains the split of the business and the launch of All One for unified reporting, while Latka steps in to clarify the company timeline and test pricing.8:13–12:18 · Guest teaching 2/10 PubVantage Financial Growth and Distributed Team Structure Latka runs the math on $120k monthly revenue, 30% growth, and acquisition multiples; when Carney refuses to discuss his deal's numbers, Latka immediately redirects him to general industry multiples.12:19–15:33 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Acquisition Costs and Remote Operational Setup Latka guides Carney away from product descriptions back to financial metrics, translating a six-month payback on a $4,000 MRR into a $24,000 CAC and clarifying churn rate intervals.15:34–16:59 · Guest teaching 0/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Carney draws blanks on standard rapid-fire questions like favorite business books and CEOs, prompting lighthearted teasing from Latka about the books on Carney's background shelf.0:00–2:06 · Guest disagreement 0/10 Promoting How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo host intro featuring an advertisement for Latka's book and audio teaser clips from the episode.2:06–5:31 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Introduction to Declan Carney and PubVantage Overview Carney outlines the ad-tech problem PubVantage solves with DFP remnant ad space passback tags, while Latka probes on business model classification and CPM unit economics.5:32–8:12 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Spinning Off Unified Reporting Platform All One Carney explains the split of the business and the launch of All One for unified reporting, while Latka steps in to clarify the company timeline and test pricing.8:13–12:18 · Guest disagreement 3/10 PubVantage Financial Growth and Distributed Team Structure Latka runs the math on $120k monthly revenue, 30% growth, and acquisition multiples; when Carney refuses to discuss his deal's numbers, Latka immediately redirects him to general industry multiples.12:19–15:33 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Acquisition Costs and Remote Operational Setup Latka guides Carney away from product descriptions back to financial metrics, translating a six-month payback on a $4,000 MRR into a $24,000 CAC and clarifying churn rate intervals.15:34–16:59 · Guest disagreement 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Carney draws blanks on standard rapid-fire questions like favorite business books and CEOs, prompting lighthearted teasing from Latka about the books on Carney's background shelf.0:00–2:06 · Nathan pushing back 0/10 Promoting How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital Solo host intro featuring an advertisement for Latka's book and audio teaser clips from the episode.2:06–5:31 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Introduction to Declan Carney and PubVantage Overview Carney outlines the ad-tech problem PubVantage solves with DFP remnant ad space passback tags, while Latka probes on business model classification and CPM unit economics.5:32–8:12 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Spinning Off Unified Reporting Platform All One Carney explains the split of the business and the launch of All One for unified reporting, while Latka steps in to clarify the company timeline and test pricing.8:13–12:18 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 PubVantage Financial Growth and Distributed Team Structure Latka runs the math on $120k monthly revenue, 30% growth, and acquisition multiples; when Carney refuses to discuss his deal's numbers, Latka immediately redirects him to general industry multiples.12:19–15:33 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Customer Acquisition Costs and Remote Operational Setup Latka guides Carney away from product descriptions back to financial metrics, translating a six-month payback on a $4,000 MRR into a $24,000 CAC and clarifying churn rate intervals.15:34–16:59 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions Carney draws blanks on standard rapid-fire questions like favorite business books and CEOs, prompting lighthearted teasing from Latka about the books on Carney's background shelf.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 88.9% · guest 11.1%0:00 · Nathan 88.9% · guest 11.1%3:00 · Nathan 22.8% · guest 77.2%3:00 · Nathan 22.8% · guest 77.2%6:00 · Nathan 21.8% · guest 78.2%6:00 · Nathan 21.8% · guest 78.2%9:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%9:00 · Nathan 33.7% · guest 66.3%12:00 · Nathan 27.5% · guest 72.5%12:00 · Nathan 27.5% · guest 72.5%15:00 · Nathan 56% · guest 44%15:00 · Nathan 56% · guest 44%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:12 Carney withholds deal valuation metrics

Carney firmly shuts down Latka's question regarding target sale valuation by stating he cannot discuss ongoing deal terms.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 13:16 Latka cuts off product pitch for CAC data

Latka interrupts Carney's product differentiation monologue to force him back to calculating hard fully weighted CAC numbers.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 2:45 Carney breaks down passback tag inefficiencies in DFP

Carney educates the host on the operational headache publishers face with DFP handling remnant space and how universal passback tags solve it.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 13:41 Latka instantly derives CAC from payback and ACV

Latka instantly converts Carney's stated six-month payback period at a $4k/month contract value into a concrete $24k CAC metric.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Promoting How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital 0000 Solo host intro featuring an advertisement for Latka's book and audio teaser clips from the episode.
Introduction to Declan Carney and PubVantage Overview 5312 Carney outlines the ad-tech problem PubVantage solves with DFP remnant ad space passback tags, while Latka probes on business model classification and CPM unit economics.
Spinning Off Unified Reporting Platform All One 4312 Carney explains the split of the business and the launch of All One for unified reporting, while Latka steps in to clarify the company timeline and test pricing.
PubVantage Financial Growth and Distributed Team Structure 7235 Latka runs the math on $120k monthly revenue, 30% growth, and acquisition multiples; when Carney refuses to discuss his deal's numbers, Latka immediately redirects him to general industry multiples.
Customer Acquisition Costs and Remote Operational Setup 6213 Latka guides Carney away from product descriptions back to financial metrics, translating a six-month payback on a $4,000 MRR into a $24,000 CAC and clarifying churn rate intervals.
The Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions 2022 Carney draws blanks on standard rapid-fire questions like favorite business books and CEOs, prompting lighthearted teasing from Latka about the books on Carney's background shelf.

Statements from this episode (15)

Opinion
Carney: Google DFP fails at monetizing remnant ad inventory with tags
“DFP is very good at direct campaigns and programmatic campaigns. What they weren't good at is helping publishers monetize their remnant space using ad tags.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 2:56
Disclosure
Carney: PubVantage charges publishers roughly one penny per thousand ad requests
“It's a volume-based place, so we charge in a CPM cost per thousand. It's generally about a penny per thousand on the amount of requests they run through our system.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 4:23
Disclosure
Carney: Average PubVantage customer pays around $4,000 per month
“That's the main, our mainstay of customers is folks who are paying for 4000, I guess would be the average amount for a client a month.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 4:57
Disclosure
Carney: Average PubVantage customer processes 100M ad requests per month
“You know, around somewhere around a hundred million requests a month is the average.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 5:17
Disclosure
Carney: PubVantage is selling its ad server to spin off All One
“We're actually in the process of splitting the company in two, and we're selling the ad server portion of the business off. And we're going to be focusing in on what we're calling a new company. We're spinning off called all one, which is unified reporting.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 5:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carney: PubVantage spinoff All One currently has five clients
“All one is at a beginning. It's really unified reporting just now, and it's at the beginning, so we only have five clients on that at the moment, but we see that decline.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 7:38
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carney: PubVantage has 30 paying clients
“We have, right now, we have 30 clients using it on a paid basis.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 8:24
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carney: PubVantage employs 23 people across US, Canada, and Vietnam
“Four folks here in Hoboken. We have four in Canada, and then we have a development team of 15 in in Vietnam.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 8:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carney: PubVantage grew revenue 30% year over year
“So we're about with 30% year over year growth from last year to this year.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 8:58
Disclosure
Carney: PubVantage is 100% bootstrapped
“Bootstrapped a hundred percent.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 9:35
Disclosure
Carney: PubVantage is negotiating the sale of its ad server division
“We've engaged a brokerage company who are out there. Well, we're actually deep into discussions with a couple of potential buyers at the moment. So the process has been fairly recent. It's been a two month process at the moment.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 9:53
Insight
Carney: SaaS companies trade between 3x and 10x ARR multiples
“The space is you're looking at with a SaaS technology depending on how innovative your technology is, you're looking at anywhere from a low of three X to a to a high of a very high of 10 X”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 10:25
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Carney: Machine learning can automate 90% of ad management workflows
“We think we can really automate 90% of what folks are doing today, which is this rote work they do every day to maintain profitability. We think we can do it twenty-four-seven with smart machine learning.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 11:58
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carney: PubVantage achieves customer CAC payback within six months
“It takes us about a year to make six months to make profit on them based upon, you know, our expenditure on trade shows and our staff. And so I'd say six months to actually begin turning them into a profitable customer.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 13:28
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Carney: PubVantage experiences 10% annual customer churn back to DFP
“We're losing about 10% of clients who go back to DFP that we bring on.”
Declan Carney Jul 12, 2019 ▶ 15:17
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