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Dec 3, 2019 · 19m · top-founders

1592 Why This $12m ARR Company Had To Pivot Away From Just Live Chat, Rely on $100k+ ACV American Customers

Nicholas de Rosen · 9m spoken Nathan Latka · 6m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Host Nathan Latka interviews Nicholas de Rosen, CEO of iAdvize North America, exploring how the SaaS conversational platform pivoted from commoditized live chat to an on-demand expert community while scaling US enterprise contracts toward a $50 million ARR target.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 40.7% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 6.0 Guest teaching 3.4 Guest disagreement 1.4 Nathan pushing back 3.4
05100:0010:001:20–4:39 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Explaining the Conversational Platform and SaaS Pricing Model Nathan analyzes iAdvize's pricing dynamics across regions, quickly extrapolating the total new bookings from the US market's 10% share. Nicholas cooperatively explains the legacy European low-tier pricing compared to the aggressive $50k to $1M US contracts.4:39–8:01 · Nathan as informed peer 5/10 Strategic Pivot to an On-Demand Expert Marketplace Nicholas explains why the company pivoted from a pure live chat software to an Uber-like marketplace of on-demand passionate experts, citing that 70% of customer engagement opportunities were missed. Nathan presses to clarify whether the core revenue model remains SaaS or has transitioned to marketplace take rates.8:01–10:13 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Fundraising History, Competitive Differentiation, and Team Scale Nathan brings up industry benchmarks and competitors like Olark, Intercom, and Drift to evaluate market dynamics. Nicholas differentiates iAdvize by highlighting their reliance on certified human experts rather than bots, alongside detailing their $60M total funding.10:14–14:11 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Growth Objectives, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Dynamics Nathan reverse-engineers the company's current ARR from growth percentages and bookings targets. When asking about CAC, Nathan intervenes to explicitly educate and distinguish between absolute CAC and the payback period ratio.14:11–16:55 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Retention, Upselling Levers, and Capital Reinvestment Nathan drills down into revenue churn, expansion potential, and net revenue retention. Nicholas dodges giving an exact NRR target due to the early stage of the US launch, prompting Nathan to press again before accepting the deflection.1:20–4:39 · Guest teaching 3/10 Explaining the Conversational Platform and SaaS Pricing Model Nathan analyzes iAdvize's pricing dynamics across regions, quickly extrapolating the total new bookings from the US market's 10% share. Nicholas cooperatively explains the legacy European low-tier pricing compared to the aggressive $50k to $1M US contracts.4:39–8:01 · Guest teaching 5/10 Strategic Pivot to an On-Demand Expert Marketplace Nicholas explains why the company pivoted from a pure live chat software to an Uber-like marketplace of on-demand passionate experts, citing that 70% of customer engagement opportunities were missed. Nathan presses to clarify whether the core revenue model remains SaaS or has transitioned to marketplace take rates.8:01–10:13 · Guest teaching 4/10 Fundraising History, Competitive Differentiation, and Team Scale Nathan brings up industry benchmarks and competitors like Olark, Intercom, and Drift to evaluate market dynamics. Nicholas differentiates iAdvize by highlighting their reliance on certified human experts rather than bots, alongside detailing their $60M total funding.10:14–14:11 · Guest teaching 2/10 Growth Objectives, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Dynamics Nathan reverse-engineers the company's current ARR from growth percentages and bookings targets. When asking about CAC, Nathan intervenes to explicitly educate and distinguish between absolute CAC and the payback period ratio.14:11–16:55 · Guest teaching 3/10 Customer Retention, Upselling Levers, and Capital Reinvestment Nathan drills down into revenue churn, expansion potential, and net revenue retention. Nicholas dodges giving an exact NRR target due to the early stage of the US launch, prompting Nathan to press again before accepting the deflection.1:20–4:39 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Explaining the Conversational Platform and SaaS Pricing Model Nathan analyzes iAdvize's pricing dynamics across regions, quickly extrapolating the total new bookings from the US market's 10% share. Nicholas cooperatively explains the legacy European low-tier pricing compared to the aggressive $50k to $1M US contracts.4:39–8:01 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Strategic Pivot to an On-Demand Expert Marketplace Nicholas explains why the company pivoted from a pure live chat software to an Uber-like marketplace of on-demand passionate experts, citing that 70% of customer engagement opportunities were missed. Nathan presses to clarify whether the core revenue model remains SaaS or has transitioned to marketplace take rates.8:01–10:13 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Fundraising History, Competitive Differentiation, and Team Scale Nathan brings up industry benchmarks and competitors like Olark, Intercom, and Drift to evaluate market dynamics. Nicholas differentiates iAdvize by highlighting their reliance on certified human experts rather than bots, alongside detailing their $60M total funding.10:14–14:11 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Growth Objectives, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Dynamics Nathan reverse-engineers the company's current ARR from growth percentages and bookings targets. When asking about CAC, Nathan intervenes to explicitly educate and distinguish between absolute CAC and the payback period ratio.14:11–16:55 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Customer Retention, Upselling Levers, and Capital Reinvestment Nathan drills down into revenue churn, expansion potential, and net revenue retention. Nicholas dodges giving an exact NRR target due to the early stage of the US launch, prompting Nathan to press again before accepting the deflection.1:20–4:39 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Explaining the Conversational Platform and SaaS Pricing Model Nathan analyzes iAdvize's pricing dynamics across regions, quickly extrapolating the total new bookings from the US market's 10% share. Nicholas cooperatively explains the legacy European low-tier pricing compared to the aggressive $50k to $1M US contracts.4:39–8:01 · Nathan pushing back 3/10 Strategic Pivot to an On-Demand Expert Marketplace Nicholas explains why the company pivoted from a pure live chat software to an Uber-like marketplace of on-demand passionate experts, citing that 70% of customer engagement opportunities were missed. Nathan presses to clarify whether the core revenue model remains SaaS or has transitioned to marketplace take rates.8:01–10:13 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Fundraising History, Competitive Differentiation, and Team Scale Nathan brings up industry benchmarks and competitors like Olark, Intercom, and Drift to evaluate market dynamics. Nicholas differentiates iAdvize by highlighting their reliance on certified human experts rather than bots, alongside detailing their $60M total funding.10:14–14:11 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Growth Objectives, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Dynamics Nathan reverse-engineers the company's current ARR from growth percentages and bookings targets. When asking about CAC, Nathan intervenes to explicitly educate and distinguish between absolute CAC and the payback period ratio.14:11–16:55 · Nathan pushing back 5/10 Customer Retention, Upselling Levers, and Capital Reinvestment Nathan drills down into revenue churn, expansion potential, and net revenue retention. Nicholas dodges giving an exact NRR target due to the early stage of the US launch, prompting Nathan to press again before accepting the deflection.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 58.9% · guest 41.1%0:00 · Nathan 58.9% · guest 41.1%3:00 · Nathan 25.3% · guest 74.7%3:00 · Nathan 25.3% · guest 74.7%6:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%6:00 · Nathan 25.5% · guest 74.5%9:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%9:00 · Nathan 41.7% · guest 58.3%12:00 · Nathan 36.9% · guest 63.1%12:00 · Nathan 36.9% · guest 63.1%15:00 · Nathan 42.3% · guest 57.7%15:00 · Nathan 42.3% · guest 57.7%18:00 · Nathan 79.1% · guest 20.9%18:00 · Nathan 79.1% · guest 20.9%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 16:05 Nicholas deflects US NRR metrics

Nicholas playfully deflects Nathan's specific inquiry about net revenue retention, telling Nathan they can revisit the conversation in a year when they have more data.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 12:23 Nathan rejects CAC confusion and clarifies metric definitions

When Nicholas gets confused by the CAC question, Nathan immediately steps in to delineate between the raw acquisition cost and the payback ratio.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 6:51 Nicholas breaks down the 70% lost conversion insight

Nicholas educates Nathan on why live chat software failed historically, sharing proprietary customer data showing brands missed 70% of visitor engagement opportunities due to lack of staffing.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 10:56 Nathan reverse-engineers ARR from partial figures

Nathan demonstrates high financial competence by calculating Nicholas's undisclosed current ARR directly from the stated 40% growth rate and target bookings.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Explaining the Conversational Platform and SaaS Pricing Model 6312 Nathan analyzes iAdvize's pricing dynamics across regions, quickly extrapolating the total new bookings from the US market's 10% share. Nicholas cooperatively explains the legacy European low-tier pricing compared to the aggressive $50k to $1M US contracts.
Strategic Pivot to an On-Demand Expert Marketplace 5523 Nicholas explains why the company pivoted from a pure live chat software to an Uber-like marketplace of on-demand passionate experts, citing that 70% of customer engagement opportunities were missed. Nathan presses to clarify whether the core revenue model remains SaaS or has transitioned to marketplace take rates.
Fundraising History, Competitive Differentiation, and Team Scale 6412 Nathan brings up industry benchmarks and competitors like Olark, Intercom, and Drift to evaluate market dynamics. Nicholas differentiates iAdvize by highlighting their reliance on certified human experts rather than bots, alongside detailing their $60M total funding.
Growth Objectives, Customer Acquisition Cost, and Payback Dynamics 7215 Nathan reverse-engineers the company's current ARR from growth percentages and bookings targets. When asking about CAC, Nathan intervenes to explicitly educate and distinguish between absolute CAC and the payback period ratio.
Customer Retention, Upselling Levers, and Capital Reinvestment 6325 Nathan drills down into revenue churn, expansion potential, and net revenue retention. Nicholas dodges giving an exact NRR target due to the early stage of the US launch, prompting Nathan to press again before accepting the deflection.

Statements from this episode (13)

Disclosure
Early European Customers at iAdvize Pay $100 to $200 Monthly
“In Europe, like all companies all startups, you start off with a lot of customers that don't pay much. And then as you go, you try to target bigger and bigger customers, right? So there is a bunch of customers that we signed up in the first years of the compan…”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 3:03
Disclosure
iAdvize Targets US Enterprise Contracts of $50k to $1M Annually
“But now in the U S we are targeting companies that are paying between 50 K and one million per year.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 3:25
Disclosure
iAdvize Targets $1M in New US Bookings for Its First Year
“US this year, so this is the first year officially in the US, we are targeting a million dollars of new booking.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 3:42
Assertion Not checkable as stated
de Rosen: iAdvize Has Around 1,500 Customers
“We have around 1500 customers.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 4:20
Assertion Not checkable as stated
De Rosen: Brands Miss 70% of Online Engagement Opportunities
“When two, three years ago, when we analyzed data from our around 1000 customers, we noticed that around 70% of the engagement opportunities were missed by brands.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 7:02
Opinion
De Rosen: Pure Live Chat Software Companies Cannot Survive
“Today, if you are just live chat software, you have no chance of surviving.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 8:19
Disclosure
De Rosen: iAdvize Has Raised $60 Million in Total Capital
“No, total of a sixty million.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 9:16
Prediction Not checkable as stated
iAdvize targets reaching $50 million ARR by end of 2020
“And the objective is to be at around fifty million of ARR by end of 2020.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 10:31
Assertion Not checkable as stated
iAdvize's ARR is currently between $10 million and $20 million
“Without going too much into the details, because some of that information we do keep it confidential, but we are in between 10 and 20.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 10:48
Assertion Not checkable as stated
iAdvize operates at an 18-month CAC payback period in the US
“In the U S again, it's a lot of still based on certain assumptions, but we are looking at A year and a half to get to get back the investment.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 12:50
Disclosure
iAdvize targets around 10% annual revenue churn in the US
“I could say that the plan is to be around 10% of that's 10% of churn of yearly churn. That is of revenue.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 14:29
Assertion Not checkable as stated
iAdvize generates most revenue from post-pilot upselling
“Most of the revenue is actually coming from the upsell that we can get after the after the pilot is validated.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 15:07
Assertion Not checkable as stated
iAdvize achieves up to 10x revenue expansion on European accounts
“I think it's some customers we were able to multiply by 10 the revenue generated with them.”
Nicholas de Rosen Dec 3, 2019 ▶ 15:36
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