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Jun 4, 2020 · 16m · top-founders

Get More People to Take Your Online Course w/ Gamification, Solo Founder, $100k in ARR

Bernardo Letayf · 8m spoken Nathan Latka · 5m spoken
0:00 / 0:00

gold bands on the timeline = statements, start to end. Hover to read, click to jump. CC turns on captions

Blue Rabbit founder Bernardo Letayf shares how he bootstrapped his gamified learning platform to over $100k in revenue, bought back 100% of his company equity from an early angel investor, and is shifting from high-touch event services to international enterprise subscriptions.

How this conversation actually went

Every chapter scored 0–10 on four independent dynamics. Hover any point for the reasoning behind the score. Nathan holds 39.3% of the talking time here. How this is scored →

Nathan as informed peer 5.7 Guest teaching 2.7 Guest disagreement 1.8 Nathan pushing back 4.7
05100:0010:000:20–4:06 · Nathan as informed peer 4/10 Nathan Latka Subscription Announcement and Interview Previews Nathan introduces Blue Rabbit and probes how the platform operates for educators moving online during pandemic disruptions. Bernardo explains the asynchronous mechanics and customizable game features without friction.4:07–6:15 · Nathan as informed peer 6/10 Customer Milestones, Pricing Strategy, and Revenue Growth Nathan drills into customer count and unit metrics, noting that Bernardo has lost count before calculating annual revenue growth from 24k to 75k.6:16–9:03 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Content Bottlenecks, Agency Model, and Team Breakdown Nathan bluntly challenges Bernardo's sluggish growth rate and categorizes the business as an agency rather than scalable software. Bernardo concedes the custom content bottleneck and explains Mexican labor economics.9:03–12:35 · Nathan as informed peer 8/10 Repaying the $25,000 Angel Investor at Zero Interest Nathan expresses disbelief over Bernardo buying out an angel investor at zero interest and reveals that Bernardo has no full-time staff. Latka directly calls the operating model 'hell' that blocks company scalability.12:35–15:03 · Nathan as informed peer 7/10 Transitioning from One-Off Events to International Subscriptions Nathan asserts that event-based tools struggle to ever become true SaaS businesses and breaks down the low average contract value. Bernardo defends the shift toward international monthly retainers in Hong Kong and Dubai.15:03–16:34 · Nathan as informed peer 2/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Bernardo Letayf Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format cordially, wrapping up with a recap of the company's financial profile.0:20–4:06 · Guest teaching 3/10 Nathan Latka Subscription Announcement and Interview Previews Nathan introduces Blue Rabbit and probes how the platform operates for educators moving online during pandemic disruptions. Bernardo explains the asynchronous mechanics and customizable game features without friction.4:07–6:15 · Guest teaching 2/10 Customer Milestones, Pricing Strategy, and Revenue Growth Nathan drills into customer count and unit metrics, noting that Bernardo has lost count before calculating annual revenue growth from 24k to 75k.6:16–9:03 · Guest teaching 3/10 Content Bottlenecks, Agency Model, and Team Breakdown Nathan bluntly challenges Bernardo's sluggish growth rate and categorizes the business as an agency rather than scalable software. Bernardo concedes the custom content bottleneck and explains Mexican labor economics.9:03–12:35 · Guest teaching 3/10 Repaying the $25,000 Angel Investor at Zero Interest Nathan expresses disbelief over Bernardo buying out an angel investor at zero interest and reveals that Bernardo has no full-time staff. Latka directly calls the operating model 'hell' that blocks company scalability.12:35–15:03 · Guest teaching 4/10 Transitioning from One-Off Events to International Subscriptions Nathan asserts that event-based tools struggle to ever become true SaaS businesses and breaks down the low average contract value. Bernardo defends the shift toward international monthly retainers in Hong Kong and Dubai.15:03–16:34 · Guest teaching 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Bernardo Letayf Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format cordially, wrapping up with a recap of the company's financial profile.0:20–4:06 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Nathan Latka Subscription Announcement and Interview Previews Nathan introduces Blue Rabbit and probes how the platform operates for educators moving online during pandemic disruptions. Bernardo explains the asynchronous mechanics and customizable game features without friction.4:07–6:15 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Customer Milestones, Pricing Strategy, and Revenue Growth Nathan drills into customer count and unit metrics, noting that Bernardo has lost count before calculating annual revenue growth from 24k to 75k.6:16–9:03 · Guest disagreement 2/10 Content Bottlenecks, Agency Model, and Team Breakdown Nathan bluntly challenges Bernardo's sluggish growth rate and categorizes the business as an agency rather than scalable software. Bernardo concedes the custom content bottleneck and explains Mexican labor economics.9:03–12:35 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Repaying the $25,000 Angel Investor at Zero Interest Nathan expresses disbelief over Bernardo buying out an angel investor at zero interest and reveals that Bernardo has no full-time staff. Latka directly calls the operating model 'hell' that blocks company scalability.12:35–15:03 · Guest disagreement 3/10 Transitioning from One-Off Events to International Subscriptions Nathan asserts that event-based tools struggle to ever become true SaaS businesses and breaks down the low average contract value. Bernardo defends the shift toward international monthly retainers in Hong Kong and Dubai.15:03–16:34 · Guest disagreement 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Bernardo Letayf Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format cordially, wrapping up with a recap of the company's financial profile.0:20–4:06 · Nathan pushing back 2/10 Nathan Latka Subscription Announcement and Interview Previews Nathan introduces Blue Rabbit and probes how the platform operates for educators moving online during pandemic disruptions. Bernardo explains the asynchronous mechanics and customizable game features without friction.4:07–6:15 · Nathan pushing back 4/10 Customer Milestones, Pricing Strategy, and Revenue Growth Nathan drills into customer count and unit metrics, noting that Bernardo has lost count before calculating annual revenue growth from 24k to 75k.6:16–9:03 · Nathan pushing back 7/10 Content Bottlenecks, Agency Model, and Team Breakdown Nathan bluntly challenges Bernardo's sluggish growth rate and categorizes the business as an agency rather than scalable software. Bernardo concedes the custom content bottleneck and explains Mexican labor economics.9:03–12:35 · Nathan pushing back 8/10 Repaying the $25,000 Angel Investor at Zero Interest Nathan expresses disbelief over Bernardo buying out an angel investor at zero interest and reveals that Bernardo has no full-time staff. Latka directly calls the operating model 'hell' that blocks company scalability.12:35–15:03 · Nathan pushing back 6/10 Transitioning from One-Off Events to International Subscriptions Nathan asserts that event-based tools struggle to ever become true SaaS businesses and breaks down the low average contract value. Bernardo defends the shift toward international monthly retainers in Hong Kong and Dubai.15:03–16:34 · Nathan pushing back 1/10 Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Bernardo Letayf Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format cordially, wrapping up with a recap of the company's financial profile.

speaking balance: gold is Nathan, purple is the guest (3 minute bins)

0:00 · Nathan 67.1% · guest 32.9%0:00 · Nathan 67.1% · guest 32.9%3:00 · Nathan 26% · guest 74%3:00 · Nathan 26% · guest 74%6:00 · Nathan 21.9% · guest 78.1%6:00 · Nathan 21.9% · guest 78.1%9:00 · Nathan 38.5% · guest 61.5%9:00 · Nathan 38.5% · guest 61.5%12:00 · Nathan 31.3% · guest 68.7%12:00 · Nathan 31.3% · guest 68.7%15:00 · Nathan 64.9% · guest 35.1%15:00 · Nathan 64.9% · guest 35.1%
Sharpest disagreement ▶ 10:17 Defending the zero-interest investor buyout

Bernardo firmly counters Latka's disbelief by detailing why the distressed angel investor accepted a principal-only payout without interest.

 Hardest push from Nathan ▶ 11:31 Nathan dismisses the operating model as unscalable

Nathan refuses to accept the viability of having zero full-time staff and turning on/off contractors, bluntly declaring it sounds like 'hell'.

 Biggest teaching moment ▶ 7:59 Explaining Mexican salary arbitrage

Bernardo educates Nathan on local purchasing power, explaining why $75,000 in top-line revenue provides ample operational runway in Mexico.

 Nathan holds their own ▶ 12:35 Deconstructing why event platforms fail as SaaS

Nathan leverages his extensive SaaS knowledge to explain why event software inherently suffers from churn and fails to retain recurring subscription value.
the scores for every segment, with the reasoning behind each
ChapterTopicNathan as informed peerGuest teachingGuest disagreementNathan pushing backWhy
Nathan Latka Subscription Announcement and Interview Previews 4312 Nathan introduces Blue Rabbit and probes how the platform operates for educators moving online during pandemic disruptions. Bernardo explains the asynchronous mechanics and customizable game features without friction.
Customer Milestones, Pricing Strategy, and Revenue Growth 6214 Nathan drills into customer count and unit metrics, noting that Bernardo has lost count before calculating annual revenue growth from 24k to 75k.
Content Bottlenecks, Agency Model, and Team Breakdown 7327 Nathan bluntly challenges Bernardo's sluggish growth rate and categorizes the business as an agency rather than scalable software. Bernardo concedes the custom content bottleneck and explains Mexican labor economics.
Repaying the $25,000 Angel Investor at Zero Interest 8338 Nathan expresses disbelief over Bernardo buying out an angel investor at zero interest and reveals that Bernardo has no full-time staff. Latka directly calls the operating model 'hell' that blocks company scalability.
Transitioning from One-Off Events to International Subscriptions 7436 Nathan asserts that event-based tools struggle to ever become true SaaS businesses and breaks down the low average contract value. Bernardo defends the shift toward international monthly retainers in Hong Kong and Dubai.
Famous Five Rapid-Fire Questions with Bernardo Letayf 2111 Nathan runs through the standard Famous Five rapid-fire format cordially, wrapping up with a recap of the company's financial profile.

Statements from this episode (11)

Assertion Not checkable as stated
Blue Rabbit has around 40 to 45 clients
“So we have around 40, maybe more, maybe 45 different clients right now.”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 4:40
Assertion Not checkable as stated
Blue Rabbit grew revenue from $24,000 to $75,000 in under a year
“Last year, but we went from making 20 four to 75,000 in less than one year.”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 5:49
Prediction Not checkable as stated
Letayf projects Blue Rabbit will reach up to $150,000 ARR in 2020
“I hope we get there to at least 120, 150.”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 6:12
Disclosure
Blue Rabbit restricts event volume due to manual custom content demands
“So we have, instead of having 2000 events a year, we're having 20, or we're having 40, and we have to run them ourselves. So we're not growing faster because our platform, ah, the client hires us, they want us to build the content.”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 7:00
Disclosure
Blue Rabbit fired its sales team and reduced total headcount to five
“Right now it's we were seven when you last interviewed me. Now we went back, we went down to four, but we have now a fifth person who helps me deliver content and designed experiences, which is a different way. And we got rid of the salespeople because they we…”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 7:27
Disclosure
Blue Rabbit sustains a five-person team in Mexico on $75,000 ARR
“Some of them will only earn on commission, and in case, whenever an event comes up, and fortunately, we're using Mexican salary, so 75,000 dollars is a lot of money for a Mexican company, so we have plenty to provide.”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 7:59
Disclosure
Blue Rabbit bought back an angel investor's 15% stake at zero return
“We bought him for, we paid him back the same amount, only 24, 25,000, but it was before the five-year contract.”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 9:49
Disclosure
Letayf: Blue Rabbit relies on on-demand contractors for five-day events
“Yeah, we turn on and off basically on every event that comes up, And they work with me for five, six days full-time, and then they go back to their-”
Bernardo Letayf Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 11:23
Opinion
Latka: Companies cannot scale relying entirely on on-demand contractor teams
“This sounds like hell, man. What gets you so, I mean, this is why you don't scale. You don't, you're the only one, I mean, you don't, no one's incentivized to help you scale. There's no other full-time employees.”
Nathan Latka Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 11:32
Insight
Latka: Event software struggles with recurring revenue due to intermittent usage
“It's very hard to have an event software company be a recurring revenue platform because they only use the technology when the event is happening.”
Nathan Latka Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 12:41
Opinion
Latka bluntly tells Letayf that Blue Rabbit is not a SaaS company
“I just don't think you're a SaaS company.”
Nathan Latka Jun 4, 2020 ▶ 13:04
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